Consumer Rights Wiki - User contributions [en]

Activision discontinues Blur video game

2026-03-19T18:30:19Z

Atsumari: Appeal of incomplete notice approved

{{IncidentCargo
|Company=Activision Blizzard
|StartDate=2011
|EndDate=
|Status=Active
|ProductLine=Blur
|Product=Blur
|ArticleType=Incident
|Type=Service Termination
|Description=The game Blur cannot be legitimately purchased for no apparent reason.
}}
Blur is an arcade-style street racing game released on May 25, 2010 for Windows, PlayStation 3 and Xbox 360.<ref>{{Cite web |title=Blur |url=https://www.gamespot.com/games/blur/ |url-status=live |archive-url=http://web.archive.org/web/20250818004301/https://www.gamespot.com/games/blur/ |archive-date=18 Aug 2025|access-date=21 Nov 2025 |website=GameSpot}}</ref> It was discontinued in 2011 when the game studio behind Blur, Bizarre Creations, was shut down by [[Activision Blizzard|Activision]].<ref>{{Cite web |date=16 Nov 2010 |title=Updated: Activision shutting down Bizarre and Budcat studios? |url=https://www.pcgamer.com/activision-shuts-down-bizarre-and-budcat-studios/ |url-status=live |archive-url=http://web.archive.org/web/20260104011532/https://www.pcgamer.com/activision-shuts-down-bizarre-and-budcat-studios/ |archive-date=4 Jan 2026|access-date=21 Nov 2025 |website=PCGamer}}</ref> The PlayStation 3 and Xbox 360 have been discontinued, and Blur has been delisted on [[Steam]], thus Blur is not for sale on any platform.<ref>{{Cite web |date=18 Nov 2018 |title=How can I buy this game legally? |url=https://steamcommunity.com/app/42640/discussions/0/3374780959389252968 |url-status=live |archive-url=http://web.archive.org/web/20250814080920/https://steamcommunity.com/app/42640/discussions/0/3374780959389252968/ |archive-date=14 Aug 2025|access-date=2025-11-23 |website=Steam}}</ref> Blur servers have been brought back online as of 2023.<ref>{{Cite web |date=19 Jan 2023 |title=Steam thread |url=https://steamcommunity.com/app/42640/discussions/0/3758850980071094166/?l=english |url-status=live |archive-url=http://web.archive.org/web/20260222203757/https://steamcommunity.com/app/42640/discussions/0/3758850980071094166/?l=english |archive-date=22 Feb 2026|access-date=2025-11-23 |website=Steam}}</ref>

==Background==
Most platforms gave Blur favourable reviews.<ref>{{Cite web |date=2021-11-23 |title=GameFAQs reviews for blur |url=https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/pc/960251-blur/reviews |url-status=live |access-date=2026-02-06 |archive-url=http://web.archive.org/web/20250427070803/https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/pc/960251-blur/reviews |archive-date=27 Apr 2025|website=GameFAQs}}</ref> Blur sold 31,000 copies in the US in the first 5 days<ref>{{Cite web |date=2010-07-08 |title=Activison: Blur was not a failure |url=https://www.eurogamer.net/activision-blur-was-not-a-failure |url-status=live |archive-url=http://web.archive.org/web/20241009041632/https://www.eurogamer.net/activision-blur-was-not-a-failure |archive-date=9 Oct 2024|access-date=2025-11-23 |website=Eurogamer}}</ref> and sold a total of 500,000 copies by the time it was discontinued.<ref>{{Cite web |date=2025-11-23 |title=Article clipping from The Independent |url=https://www.newspapers.com/article/the-independent/87964042 |url-status=live |archive-url=http://web.archive.org/web/20250810003013/https://www.newspapers.com/article/the-independent/87964042/ |archive-date=10 Aug 2025|access-date=2025-11-23}}</ref> A sequel was planned, but was abandoned and never finished due to the closing of Bizarre Creations.<ref>{{Cite web |date=2024-04-04 |title=Blur 2 |url=https://kotaku.com/games/blur-2 |access-date=2026-02-06 |url-status=live |archive-url=http://web.archive.org/web/20250623003725/https://kotaku.com/games/blur-2 |archive-date=23 Jun 2025|website=Kotaku}}</ref> An officially licensed free-to-play spin-off titled "Blur Overdrive" was released on November 1, 2013 by Marmalade Play.<ref>{{Cite web |author=Damien McFerran |date=2013-11-20 |title=Blur Overdrive Review |url=https://www.pocketgamer.com/blur-overdrive/ |url-status=live |archive-url=http://web.archive.org/web/20260222203936/https://www.pocketgamer.com/blur-overdrive/ |archive-date=22 Feb 2026|access-date=2026-01-05 |website=Pocketgamer.com}}</ref>

==Discontinuation notice==
Activision's statement:<blockquote>Over the past three years since our purchase of Bizarre Creations, the fundamentals of the racing genre have changed significantly. Although we made a substantial investment in creating a new IP, Blur, it did not find a commercial audience. Bizarre is a very talented team of developers; however, because of the broader economic factors impacting the market, we are exploring our options regarding the future of the studio, including a potential sale of the business.<ref>{{Cite web |date=16 Nov 2010 |title=Activision Looking To Close Or Sell Bizarre Creations |url=https://worthplaying.com/article/2010/11/16/news/78258-activision-looking-to-close-or-sell-bizarre-creations/ |url-status=live |archive-url=http://web.archive.org/web/20260206222947/https://worthplaying.com/article/2010/11/16/news/78258-activision-looking-to-close-or-sell-bizarre-creations/ |archive-date=6 Feb 2026|access-date=21 Nov 2025 |website=WorthPlaying}}</ref></blockquote>

==Consumer response==
The consumer response to Activision discontinuing Blur was of disappointment. Players enjoyed the game's campaign mode and split-screen racing. The legal way to play Blur is to purchase a Steam key or obtain a physical disc, but this is difficult, as the game has been delisted on Steam. Because of this, many players have resorted to downloading the game on abandonware sites.<ref>{{Cite web |date=2025-12-26 |title=Reddit thread |url=https://www.reddit.com/r/patientgamers/comments/1fx72vx/while_a_commercial_failure_at_the_time_blur_is/ |url-status=live |archive-url=http://web.archive.org/web/20241217064929/https://old.reddit.com/r/patientgamers/comments/1fx72vx/while_a_commercial_failure_at_the_time_blur_is/ |archive-date=17 Dec 2024|access-date=2025-12-26 |website=Reddit}}</ref>

Unofficial servers for Blur are currently being hosted by the Amax Emu project.<ref>{{Cite web |title=Amax Emu |url=https://amax-emu.com/Dashboard |url-status=live |archive-url=http://web.archive.org/web/20260204160712/https://amax-emu.com/Dashboard |archive-date=4 Feb 2026|access-date=2025-12-27 |website=Amax Emu}}</ref>

==See also==
*[[Stop Killing Games]]

==References==
{{reflist}}

[[Category:Activision Blizzard]]
[[Category:Discontinued products]]
[[Category:Video games]]
[[Category:Service cancellation]]

Consumer Rights Wiki:Staff

2026-03-18T21:13:05Z

Atsumari: title updates for clarity

=Consumer Rights Wiki Staff=

Welcome to the official staff listing for the Consumer Rights Wiki (CRW). This page outlines the people behind the scenes who keep our project running and our content trustworthy.

==Executive Team==
''Project leadership and administrative access across all platforms.''

*'''Louis Rossmann ([[User:Louis|Wiki]])''' - Bossman
*'''Keith ([[User:Keith|Wiki]])''' - Wiki Manager

==Contractors==
''Paid staff handling backend, tech, and outreach.''

*'''Jake''' ([[User:JakeL|'''Wiki''']]) – Tech Infrastructure
*'''Atsumari''' ([[User:Atsumari|'''Wiki''']]) ([https://discord.com/users/177159079783956492 Discord]) – Social Media management

==Discord Leads==
''Admins with full access to CRW platforms. Their primary role is to manage and maintain Discord.''

*'''Dog ([[User:Carrehec|Wiki]])'''
*'''Christoph ([[User:Christoph Howard|Wiki]])'''

==Global Administrators==
''Admins with full access to all CRW platforms.''

*'''Frank ([[User:Francis|Wiki]])''' - Botman

==Wiki Administrators==
''Oversee wiki-specific backend and configuration issues.''

*'''Mingyee ([[User:Mingyee|Wiki]])'''

==Global Moderators==
''Moderation and support across all CRW platforms.''

*'''Atsumari''' ([[User:Atsumari|'''Wiki''']]) ([https://discord.com/users/177159079783956492 Discord])

==Discord Moderators==
''Moderate discussions and maintain a safe environment on Discord.''

*'''Stadtionalist'''

==Wiki Moderators==
''Ensure content quality, neutrality, and editorial standards on the wiki.''

*'''Travis ([[User:Travis|Wiki]])'''
*'''JamesTDG ([[User:JamesTDG|Wiki]])'''
*'''MrPollo ([[User:Mr Pollo|Wiki]])'''
*'''Fenriris ([[User:Fen|Wiki]])'''
*'''JackFromWisconsin ([[User:JackFromWisconsin|Wiki]])'''
*'''NK ([[User:Beanie_Bo|Wiki]])'''
*'''Illerfish2 ([[User:Illerfish2|Wiki]])'''
*'''AnotherConsumerRightsPerson ([[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|Wiki]])'''

==Role Definitions==

;Executives
:Project leadership team. Manage all services and hold full administrative access. Often operate behind the scenes on Discord and the wiki.

;Contractors
:Paid technical, administrative, and PR staff who assist with project operations.

;Discord Leads
:Admins with full access who oversee Discord and lead the team in issues related to it.

;Global Admins
:Admins with oversight over all CRW services, responsible for technical and policy decisions affecting the entire platform.

;Wiki Admins
:Handle wiki-specific configuration, permissions, and backend issues.

;Global Moderators
:Support staff who help maintain order and user engagement across all platforms.

;Discord Moderators
:Moderate community conversations and enforce server rules.

;Wiki Moderators
:Focus on article content, dispute resolution, and wiki policy enforcement with privileges relating to user management, page locking, and stub improvement.

----

''Need help or want to get involved? Visit [[Consumer_Rights_Wiki:Moderator_applications]] to apply to join our moderation team or join our community via the Discord link on the sidebar to contribute to the discussion. Remember that you don’t need to become staff to create an article. Use the page to the left called “create a page“ to learn more about creating a page about your topic.''

[[Category:CRW]]

User:StefanL38/Discussion forum

2026-03-04T16:45:30Z

Atsumari:

{{Irrelevant}}

'''pretty experienced with userforums but really lost here'''

I looked up the "help" section

I looked up the FaQ

I joined discord

'''Still I am lost !'''

non of these pages gave me any information how to proceed.

The creator of this website - at least to me - seem to suffer what I call the experts blindness for beginner difficulties.

I am not a website creator or a wiki creator. Still I would like to contribute to this website.

But I have '''NO''' Clue how to do that. As I can '''NOT''' not even can post messages on discord

I have chosen this way to send you a message by misusing the "create a page"-function for writing to you

I am '''NOT''' familiar with

- discord

- creating wikipages

I do not understand Your concept in which order to read on this website to get started. You assume wayyyy too much knowledge.

And my main goal is to post an idea in a classical userforum. Something similar to the arduino-userforum.

Now I am curoius of somebody well see this page and react to it.{{Ph-T-Int}}

==How it works==
{{Ph-T-HIW}}

==Why it is a problem==
{{Ph-T-WIIAP}}

==Examples==
{{Ph-T-E}}

==References==
{{reflist}}

[[Category:Common terms]]

Consumer Rights Wiki talk:Bugs

2026-03-04T16:31:48Z

Atsumari: /* where is the total bloody beginner tutorial? */ Reply

[[Category:CRW]]
<div style="margin: {{#ifeq:{{{navbox|<noinclude>yes</noinclude>}}}|yes|2px}} 0 0.5em; padding: 0.5em; {{{style|border: 1px solid #A0A5AD;}}} {{{backgroundstyle|background-color: var(--background-color-progressive-subtle, #eaf3ff); color: inherit;}}}">
<div style="padding: 0.25em 0; text-align: center; font-size: 120%; border-radius: 3px; font-weight: bold; {{{titlestyle|background-color: var(--background-color-content-added, #aad1ff); color: inherit;}}}">Welcome — Issues of Interest to Developers</div>
When reporting a bug, please include as much detail as possible to help developers reproduce and fix the issue.
'''Please do not report security issues here'''. Email them to '''security@fulu.org''' instead.

*'''Check for duplicates:''' look through existing reports before posting to avoid repeats.
*'''System details:''' include your operating system, browser, and platform (e.g. Windows, macOS, Linux, x86, ARM, Chrome, Edge, Safari, Firefox).
*'''Inputs and outputs:''' describe what you did, what you expected to happen, and what actually happened.
*'''Reproduction steps:''' provide clear, step-by-step instructions so developers can replicate the bug.
*For general discussions or suggestions not related to bugs, please use the [[Consumer Rights Wiki talk:Moderators' noticeboard|Moderators' noticeboard]] instead.

<div style="padding: 0.25em 0; text-align: center; font-size: 150%; border-radius: 3px; font-weight: bold">[[Special:NewSection/Consumer Rights Wiki talk:Bugs|Report a new bug]]</div>

*You will receive a response from [[User:JakeL]], who is contracted to provide professional support for this wiki in a production environment.
</div>
<br />
{{Archives}} 

==Wiki search engine indexing==

There are a couple of posts asking about search engine indexing of this wiki: [[Consumer Rights Wiki talk:Moderators' noticeboard#Should CRW be indexed by search engines?]] and [[Talk:Main Page#Suggestion: Implementing a /robots.txt page]]. '''''[[User:JackFromWisconsin|📎 JackFromWisconsin]]''''' ([[User_talk:JackFromWisconsin|talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/JackFromWisconsin|contribs]]) 02:20, 24 August 2025 (UTC)

:We are currently looking into this and I will update the thread as and when we have a solution or any further news. [[User:JakeL|JakeL]] ([[User talk:JakeL|talk]]) 00:38, 8 September 2025 (UTC)

==How do you edit beginning of an article with StubNotice?==

I was trying to edit the beginning of the article on [[Medical ventilator]] (to add a see also link to the medical equipment article).

The article has a StubNotice template at the beginning (on the same line as the beginning of the first paragraph).

When I try to save changes after making ANY change to the text on the same line as the stub notice template, it will not save (it gives me a message telling me about the procedure for requesting stubnotice removal). I am not trying to move or remove the stub notice, I didn't touch that. Even if all I try to do is put a newline or space after the template, or change words on the first line, it won't let me. This happens whether I use the visual editor or the source editor. I am using firefox running on linux.

I can save changes later on in that article, and I have edited other articles marked as stubs without issue.

The stubnotice documentation and talk page do not seem to document this behaviour, or tell me what to do. If this is desired behaviour, then the template should explain how to handle it.

Thank you. [[User:Drakeula|Drakeula]] ([[User talk:Drakeula|talk]]) 21:31, 24 September 2025 (UTC)

:Not a mod, but I think I can respond to this. You can’t and this is pretty much desired behaviour. The [[Special:AbuseFilter|Abuse filter]] is the reason for it. It does attack more than just that area too as it thinks you’re changing the notice. [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|<i><b>AnotherConsumerRightsPerson</b></i>]] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 07:40, 28 September 2025 (UTC)
::I don't understand why this behavior would be desired. To me it seems like a bug, where the abuse filter is protecting more than it should.
::Regardless, how can we improve the lead paragraph when we can not change it?
::*Are we supposed to duplicate the immutable first paragraph, putting any revisions/improvements in a secondary copy of the first paragraph? Is there a standard template or way to document what is going on so it doesn't confuse readers when they see two first paragraphs?
::*Do we need to propose edits to the first paragraph in some form on the talk page, then request an administrator to come and actually make the change? (If so, how/where do we make the request?)
::*Are we expected to just ignore problems in the first paragraph, and revise the rest of it until the stub can be removed?
::Thanks. [[User:Drakeula|Drakeula]] ([[User talk:Drakeula|talk]]) 01:37, 1 October 2025 (UTC)
::I wonder if this edit, where an administrator used the visual editor to delete a deletion tag after the stubnotice might be part of the problem. Prior to that edit, the stubnotice was on its own line. After that edit, the stubnotice is on the same line as the first paragraph.
::https://consumerrights.wiki/index.php?title=Shortage_of_medical_ventilators_during_the_COVID_pandemic&diff=prev&oldid=25186
::If the abuse filter intentionally protects everything on the stubnotice line, then the problem may be in the visual editor, which should ensure that it preserves the newline at the end of a protected line. (At the very least, it should warn an administrator when they are suddenly protecting a bunch of text that wasn't protected before.) [[User:Drakeula|Drakeula]] ([[User talk:Drakeula|talk]]) 02:06, 1 October 2025 (UTC)
:::I personally don’t like the current ‘stub notice can only be removed by mods’ anyway, and there are loads of article maintenance templates which '''don’t have this for some reason'''. Proposing edits in talk page is actually done on Wikipedia in the form of edit requests, where a mod will look at it there, but the thing is it won’t alert mods here to the request by just posting about it. The point about it protects the entire line seems valid to me and makes complete sense from my own experience, so I do think that is the most likely scenario. [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|<i><b>AnotherConsumerRightsPerson</b></i>]] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 15:22, 1 October 2025 (UTC)
::::This is by design so that editors do not remove the notice until its been removed by staff for completeness. Once work on an article is completed you can post an appeal in the noticeboard or discord #appeals staff do actively check these so that peer edits can be approved and notices removed. This is both by policy and system design; it is not a bug. If you have thoughts on how we can improve this process feel free to bring it up in the dashboard - [[User:Atsumari|Atsumari]] ([[User talk:Atsumari|talk]]) 15:46, 12 October 2025 (UTC)
:::::If this is desired behavior -- why? What purpose does it serve making it so the ''entire first paragraph'' of an article is ''immutable''?
:::::Note that the issue is the protection of the rest of the line, not the protection of the notice itself.
:::::@[[User:Atsumari|Atsumari]] Sorry, I don't know where/what the dashboard is, please give me a link. In the meantime, I will post suggestions for improvement here. Thank you.
:::::How to improve it:
:::::*Fix the code, so that only the stubnotice template is protected, not the rest of the line.
:::::*Fix the code when submitting a change so that it ''always'' adds a newline immediately after a stubnotice (or other protected template) if there isn't one there.
:::::*When a moderator submits a change with anything on the same line as a protected template, (either by adding to it, or by deleting the newline at the end of the line) the software should issue a warning, telling them what this will do to everybody else and asking them to confirm that they really want to do that. (Make the warning simple, clear, blatant, something you have to type a response to so people will read it and not autoclick.)
:::::Temporary workarounds:
:::::Add cautionary notices to the stubnotice template and its documentation.
:::::*The documentation should explain this behavior, tell moderators what the intended use of protecting the rest of the line is, and warn moderators about the problems it can cause.
:::::*If the visual editor is part of the problem (as I suspect it may be, given the edit which caused the problem in this article), then the documentation should warn moderators to be especially careful when using it around stubnotices.
:::::*The template text should explain what is going on, so an editor encountering the problem for the first time knows what is happening, and what to do about it. (How to get help to fix this case.) [[User:Drakeula|Drakeula]] ([[User talk:Drakeula|talk]]) 19:46, 18 October 2025 (UTC)
::::::Just found that the template:incomplete has same problem. [[User:Drakeula|Drakeula]] ([[User talk:Drakeula|talk]]) 05:17, 19 October 2025 (UTC)
::::::That part about the first paragraph being un-editable is not intended but the fact that users cannot edit the stub notice (or other notices) is created so someone cant just arbitrariliy edit their post removing the notices without staff review and formal appeal of the action by the user. As for where the dashboard is [[Consumer Rights Wiki talk:Moderators' noticeboard]] here is a link to it. As for the rest of your concerns I will flag down one of the tech folks or Keith for you to provide a more detailed explaination or look into exactly why everything in a first paragraph is being locked down as if someone adds a stub notices it should be at the top and above all text so there should be a seperation between the article text and the stub notice. This might also just be a policy thing we need to discuss as the stub notice is working as intended but the text after it being locked is not. - [[User:Atsumari|Atsumari]] ([[User talk:Atsumari|talk]]) 08:24, 1 November 2025 (UTC)

==Numeric usernames in cites produce warnings==
Usernames allow a wide range of characters. When <code>|author=</code> is used, the warning should not exist. The numberic warning should still exist on <code>|last=</code> and <code>|first=</code>. Many pages in [[:Category:CS1 maint: numeric names: authors list]] are false positives. [[Special:Contributions/2A00:23C8:2384:101:B34:3E7B:6AF4:18CF|2A00:23C8:2384:101:B34:3E7B:6AF4:18CF]] 16:56, 9 November 2025 (UTC)

==Broken pages==

Hello, there are some pages that were created by the maintenance script that are all a subpage of Broken. You can find them by going down [[special:contribs/Maintenance script|here]]. [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|'''''AnotherConsumerRightsPerson''''']] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 07:43, 2 January 2026 (UTC)

:These pages don't even seem to be deletable. [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|'''''AnotherConsumerRightsPerson''''']] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 06:18, 15 January 2026 (UTC)

==Main page header blues are low contrans, and don't meet WCAG AAA standards.==

<nowiki>#</nowiki>7FB6FF for links and #004080 for background are too close to each other. It is improvement over prevous conmination, but still not super accessible for color blind people. Blue and black themes are quite hard to make because both are dark colors. You can ping me here or in Discord if you want to discuss accessibility. [[User:Banana|Banana]] ([[User talk:Banana|talk]]) 22:40, 4 February 2026 (UTC)

==Header Icons in vector-header class header are changing to black in dark theme==

Icons like Alerts, Notices, Watchlist and Personal settings are switching to black when device is in dark theme. Tested in chrome and firefox, on Linux (ubuntu 24.04 LTS + KDE) and Mac. [[User:Banana|Banana]] ([[User talk:Banana|talk]]) 22:44, 4 February 2026 (UTC)

==Visited links on dark blue background doesnt meet WCAG accessibility standards==

<nowiki>#</nowiki>6a60b0 for link text on #1b223d has contrast of 2.91 which is way off for color blind people. [[User:Banana|Banana]] ([[User talk:Banana|talk]]) 22:50, 4 February 2026 (UTC)

==Class infobox blocks are shifting layout and moves parts of first entry in lists they are above==

Good example is Previous discussions block in this page. It has too low width or margins, so flex layout wraps first entry in list around it. [[User:Banana|Banana]] ([[User talk:Banana|talk]]) 22:53, 4 February 2026 (UTC)

==w/Special:Preferences header has no background==

w/Special:Preferences has same header functions as other pages header, but has other styling [[User:Banana|Banana]] ([[User talk:Banana|talk]]) 22:59, 4 February 2026 (UTC)

==Category:Wiki root subcategories with 1 article should be always in expanded state==

This will reduce amount of clicks to some articles and make user experience little touch better [[User:Banana|Banana]] ([[User talk:Banana|talk]]) 23:00, 4 February 2026 (UTC)

==Width radio buttons in Appearance section of vector-sticky-pinned-container navbar does not change anything==

Tested in chrome and firefox, both Linux (ubuntu 24.04 lts + KDE) and Mac. Width radio buttons don't change anything in any page I opened to check it out. [[User:Banana|Banana]] ([[User talk:Banana|talk]]) 23:04, 4 February 2026 (UTC)

==/Sandbox and /Sandbox/Welcome are redundant==

/Sandbox/Welcome is looking same and does absolutely same stuff as /Sandbox [[User:Banana|Banana]] ([[User talk:Banana|talk]]) 23:22, 4 February 2026 (UTC)

==vector-sticky-pinned-container navbar hide button pinning to static header is counterintuitive==

If you click on hide option, It creates just another button in static header, which is super confusing for those who have not a lot of technical knowledge [[User:Banana|Banana]] ([[User talk:Banana|talk]]) 23:31, 4 February 2026 (UTC)

:Same with tools being pinned to vector-menu-content-list [[User:Banana|Banana]] ([[User talk:Banana|talk]]) 23:38, 4 February 2026 (UTC)

==w/Special:Preferences ⧼prefs-reading⧽ key is not parsed==

This value is fallbacked as key name because it points to non existing entry [[User:Banana|Banana]] ([[User talk:Banana|talk]]) 23:33, 4 February 2026 (UTC)

==where is the total bloody beginner tutorial?==

'''pretty experienced with userforums but really lost here'''

I looked up the "help" section

I looked up the FaQ

I joined discord

'''Still I am lost !'''

non of these pages gave me any information how to proceed.

The creator of this website - at least to me - seem to suffer what I call the experts blindness for beginner difficulties.

I am not a website creator or a wiki creator. Still I would like to contribute to this website.

But I have '''NO''' Clue how to do that. As I can '''NOT''' not even can post messages on discord

I have chosen this way to send you a message by misusing the "create a page"-function for writing to you

I am '''NOT''' familiar with

- discord

- creating wikipages

I do not understand Your concept in which order to read on this website to get started. You assume wayyyy too much knowledge.

And my main goal is to post an idea in a classical userforum. Something similar to the arduino-userforum.

Now I am curoius of somebody well see this page and react to it. [[User:StefanL38|StefanL38]] ([[User talk:StefanL38|talk]]) 16:20, 4 March 2026 (UTC)

:This would be better suited for the moderator noticeboard as this is not a system bug or security issue. Please ask for assistance in the [[Consumer Rights Wiki talk:Moderators' noticeboard]]. - [[User:Atsumari|Atsumari]] ([[User talk:Atsumari|talk]]) 16:31, 4 March 2026 (UTC)

Consumer Rights Wiki talk:Bugs

2026-02-28T23:52:42Z

Atsumari: /* Ability to edit Main Page.css and Main Page/Portals in Special:UncategorizedPages is bit of security issue */ Reply

[[Category:CRW]]
<div style="margin: {{#ifeq:{{{navbox|<noinclude>yes</noinclude>}}}|yes|2px}} 0 0.5em; padding: 0.5em; {{{style|border: 1px solid #A0A5AD;}}} {{{backgroundstyle|background-color: var(--background-color-progressive-subtle, #eaf3ff); color: inherit;}}}">
<div style="padding: 0.25em 0; text-align: center; font-size: 120%; border-radius: 3px; font-weight: bold; {{{titlestyle|background-color: var(--background-color-content-added, #aad1ff); color: inherit;}}}">Welcome — Issues of Interest to Developers</div>
When reporting a bug, please include as much detail as possible to help developers reproduce and fix the issue.
'''Please do not report security issues here'''. Email them to '''security@fulu.org''' instead.

*'''Check for duplicates:''' look through existing reports before posting to avoid repeats.
*'''System details:''' include your operating system, browser, and platform (e.g. Windows, macOS, Linux, x86, ARM, Chrome, Edge, Safari, Firefox).
*'''Inputs and outputs:''' describe what you did, what you expected to happen, and what actually happened.
*'''Reproduction steps:''' provide clear, step-by-step instructions so developers can replicate the bug.
*For general discussions or suggestions not related to bugs, please use the [[Consumer Rights Wiki talk:Moderators' noticeboard|Moderators' noticeboard]] instead.

<div style="padding: 0.25em 0; text-align: center; font-size: 150%; border-radius: 3px; font-weight: bold">[[Special:NewSection/Consumer Rights Wiki talk:Bugs|Report a new bug]]</div>

*You will receive a response from [[User:JakeL]], who is contracted to provide professional support for this wiki in a production environment.
</div>
<br />
{{Archives}} 

==Wiki search engine indexing==

There are a couple of posts asking about search engine indexing of this wiki: [[Consumer Rights Wiki talk:Moderators' noticeboard#Should CRW be indexed by search engines?]] and [[Talk:Main Page#Suggestion: Implementing a /robots.txt page]]. '''''[[User:JackFromWisconsin|📎 JackFromWisconsin]]''''' ([[User_talk:JackFromWisconsin|talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/JackFromWisconsin|contribs]]) 02:20, 24 August 2025 (UTC)

:We are currently looking into this and I will update the thread as and when we have a solution or any further news. [[User:JakeL|JakeL]] ([[User talk:JakeL|talk]]) 00:38, 8 September 2025 (UTC)

==How do you edit beginning of an article with StubNotice?==

I was trying to edit the beginning of the article on [[Medical ventilator]] (to add a see also link to the medical equipment article).

The article has a StubNotice template at the beginning (on the same line as the beginning of the first paragraph).

When I try to save changes after making ANY change to the text on the same line as the stub notice template, it will not save (it gives me a message telling me about the procedure for requesting stubnotice removal). I am not trying to move or remove the stub notice, I didn't touch that. Even if all I try to do is put a newline or space after the template, or change words on the first line, it won't let me. This happens whether I use the visual editor or the source editor. I am using firefox running on linux.

I can save changes later on in that article, and I have edited other articles marked as stubs without issue.

The stubnotice documentation and talk page do not seem to document this behaviour, or tell me what to do. If this is desired behaviour, then the template should explain how to handle it.

Thank you. [[User:Drakeula|Drakeula]] ([[User talk:Drakeula|talk]]) 21:31, 24 September 2025 (UTC)

:Not a mod, but I think I can respond to this. You can’t and this is pretty much desired behaviour. The [[Special:AbuseFilter|Abuse filter]] is the reason for it. It does attack more than just that area too as it thinks you’re changing the notice. [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|<i><b>AnotherConsumerRightsPerson</b></i>]] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 07:40, 28 September 2025 (UTC)
::I don't understand why this behavior would be desired. To me it seems like a bug, where the abuse filter is protecting more than it should.
::Regardless, how can we improve the lead paragraph when we can not change it?
::*Are we supposed to duplicate the immutable first paragraph, putting any revisions/improvements in a secondary copy of the first paragraph? Is there a standard template or way to document what is going on so it doesn't confuse readers when they see two first paragraphs?
::*Do we need to propose edits to the first paragraph in some form on the talk page, then request an administrator to come and actually make the change? (If so, how/where do we make the request?)
::*Are we expected to just ignore problems in the first paragraph, and revise the rest of it until the stub can be removed?
::Thanks. [[User:Drakeula|Drakeula]] ([[User talk:Drakeula|talk]]) 01:37, 1 October 2025 (UTC)
::I wonder if this edit, where an administrator used the visual editor to delete a deletion tag after the stubnotice might be part of the problem. Prior to that edit, the stubnotice was on its own line. After that edit, the stubnotice is on the same line as the first paragraph.
::https://consumerrights.wiki/index.php?title=Shortage_of_medical_ventilators_during_the_COVID_pandemic&diff=prev&oldid=25186
::If the abuse filter intentionally protects everything on the stubnotice line, then the problem may be in the visual editor, which should ensure that it preserves the newline at the end of a protected line. (At the very least, it should warn an administrator when they are suddenly protecting a bunch of text that wasn't protected before.) [[User:Drakeula|Drakeula]] ([[User talk:Drakeula|talk]]) 02:06, 1 October 2025 (UTC)
:::I personally don’t like the current ‘stub notice can only be removed by mods’ anyway, and there are loads of article maintenance templates which '''don’t have this for some reason'''. Proposing edits in talk page is actually done on Wikipedia in the form of edit requests, where a mod will look at it there, but the thing is it won’t alert mods here to the request by just posting about it. The point about it protects the entire line seems valid to me and makes complete sense from my own experience, so I do think that is the most likely scenario. [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|<i><b>AnotherConsumerRightsPerson</b></i>]] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 15:22, 1 October 2025 (UTC)
::::This is by design so that editors do not remove the notice until its been removed by staff for completeness. Once work on an article is completed you can post an appeal in the noticeboard or discord #appeals staff do actively check these so that peer edits can be approved and notices removed. This is both by policy and system design; it is not a bug. If you have thoughts on how we can improve this process feel free to bring it up in the dashboard - [[User:Atsumari|Atsumari]] ([[User talk:Atsumari|talk]]) 15:46, 12 October 2025 (UTC)
:::::If this is desired behavior -- why? What purpose does it serve making it so the ''entire first paragraph'' of an article is ''immutable''?
:::::Note that the issue is the protection of the rest of the line, not the protection of the notice itself.
:::::@[[User:Atsumari|Atsumari]] Sorry, I don't know where/what the dashboard is, please give me a link. In the meantime, I will post suggestions for improvement here. Thank you.
:::::How to improve it:
:::::*Fix the code, so that only the stubnotice template is protected, not the rest of the line.
:::::*Fix the code when submitting a change so that it ''always'' adds a newline immediately after a stubnotice (or other protected template) if there isn't one there.
:::::*When a moderator submits a change with anything on the same line as a protected template, (either by adding to it, or by deleting the newline at the end of the line) the software should issue a warning, telling them what this will do to everybody else and asking them to confirm that they really want to do that. (Make the warning simple, clear, blatant, something you have to type a response to so people will read it and not autoclick.)
:::::Temporary workarounds:
:::::Add cautionary notices to the stubnotice template and its documentation.
:::::*The documentation should explain this behavior, tell moderators what the intended use of protecting the rest of the line is, and warn moderators about the problems it can cause.
:::::*If the visual editor is part of the problem (as I suspect it may be, given the edit which caused the problem in this article), then the documentation should warn moderators to be especially careful when using it around stubnotices.
:::::*The template text should explain what is going on, so an editor encountering the problem for the first time knows what is happening, and what to do about it. (How to get help to fix this case.) [[User:Drakeula|Drakeula]] ([[User talk:Drakeula|talk]]) 19:46, 18 October 2025 (UTC)
::::::Just found that the template:incomplete has same problem. [[User:Drakeula|Drakeula]] ([[User talk:Drakeula|talk]]) 05:17, 19 October 2025 (UTC)
::::::That part about the first paragraph being un-editable is not intended but the fact that users cannot edit the stub notice (or other notices) is created so someone cant just arbitrariliy edit their post removing the notices without staff review and formal appeal of the action by the user. As for where the dashboard is [[Consumer Rights Wiki talk:Moderators' noticeboard]] here is a link to it. As for the rest of your concerns I will flag down one of the tech folks or Keith for you to provide a more detailed explaination or look into exactly why everything in a first paragraph is being locked down as if someone adds a stub notices it should be at the top and above all text so there should be a seperation between the article text and the stub notice. This might also just be a policy thing we need to discuss as the stub notice is working as intended but the text after it being locked is not. - [[User:Atsumari|Atsumari]] ([[User talk:Atsumari|talk]]) 08:24, 1 November 2025 (UTC)

==Numeric usernames in cites produce warnings==
Usernames allow a wide range of characters. When <code>|author=</code> is used, the warning should not exist. The numberic warning should still exist on <code>|last=</code> and <code>|first=</code>. Many pages in [[:Category:CS1 maint: numeric names: authors list]] are false positives. [[Special:Contributions/2A00:23C8:2384:101:B34:3E7B:6AF4:18CF|2A00:23C8:2384:101:B34:3E7B:6AF4:18CF]] 16:56, 9 November 2025 (UTC)

==Broken pages==

Hello, there are some pages that were created by the maintenance script that are all a subpage of Broken. You can find them by going down [[special:contribs/Maintenance script|here]]. [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|'''''AnotherConsumerRightsPerson''''']] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 07:43, 2 January 2026 (UTC)

:These pages don't even seem to be deletable. [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|'''''AnotherConsumerRightsPerson''''']] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 06:18, 15 January 2026 (UTC)

==Consumerrights wiki not translatable via translate.google.com==

I wanted to share a page of this wiki with a Dutch-speal-king friend & Google Translate has this handy feature where you can drop a link, and it will generate a link with the webpage translated to your language of choice. Unfortunately, this feature doesn't seem to work for consumerrightswiki (returning a 403 Forbidden), limiting its reach to EN-only speakers. Is there any chance translate.google.com can be whitelisted?

This link is an example of translating the Microsoft_Windows page to Dutch: https://consumerrights-wiki.translate.goog/w/Microsoft_Windows?_x_tr_sl=en&_x_tr_tl=nl&_x_tr_hl=en&_x_tr_pto=wapp&_x_tr_hist=true

In DevTools:
[[File:Google Translate consumerrights.wiki failure.png|alt=Google Translate consumerrights.wiki failure|thumb|Google Translate consumerrights.wiki failure]]
[[User:Webketje|Webketje]] ([[User talk:Webketje|talk]]) 09:35, 23 January 2026 (UTC)

:I tested it and am getting the same problem. [[User:SinexTitan|SinexTitan]] ([[User talk:SinexTitan|talk]]) 10:30, 23 January 2026 (UTC)
::this website isnt indexed by search engines, thats probably why this happens [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|'''''AnotherConsumerRightsPerson''''']] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 17:58, 23 January 2026 (UTC)
:::@[[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|AnotherConsumerRightsPerson]] That is not the issue; it is indexed by search engines (at least the main page). This is a server configuration issue, perhaps to do with X-Frame-Options or other headers [[User:Webketje|Webketje]] ([[User talk:Webketje|talk]]) 11:16, 29 January 2026 (UTC)

::::Wow! I think you have stumbled onto a clue to why Louis can not get page rank for Consumer Rights Wiki articles! If Google is banned from this website (or if Google thinks it is banned) that would explain both behaviours. We need to get eyes onto this bug. [[User:Big Mac|Big Mac]] ([[User talk:Big Mac|talk]]) 03:15, 19 February 2026 (UTC)
:::::This has been happening for an extremely long time. We do need to get this fixed. [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|'''''AnotherConsumerRightsPerson''''']] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 06:09, 19 February 2026 (UTC)
:This is now fixed [[User:JakeL|JakeL]] ([[User talk:JakeL|talk]]) 10:57, 19 February 2026 (UTC)

==Main page header blues are low contrans, and don't meet WCAG AAA standards.==

<nowiki>#</nowiki>7FB6FF for links and #004080 for background are too close to each other. It is improvement over prevous conmination, but still not super accessible for color blind people. Blue and black themes are quite hard to make because both are dark colors. You can ping me here or in Discord if you want to discuss accessibility. [[User:Banana|Banana]] ([[User talk:Banana|talk]]) 22:40, 4 February 2026 (UTC)

==Header Icons in vector-header class header are changing to black in dark theme==

Icons like Alerts, Notices, Watchlist and Personal settings are switching to black when device is in dark theme. Tested in chrome and firefox, on Linux (ubuntu 24.04 LTS + KDE) and Mac. [[User:Banana|Banana]] ([[User talk:Banana|talk]]) 22:44, 4 February 2026 (UTC)

==Visited links on dark blue background doesnt meet WCAG accessibility standards==

<nowiki>#</nowiki>6a60b0 for link text on #1b223d has contrast of 2.91 which is way off for color blind people. [[User:Banana|Banana]] ([[User talk:Banana|talk]]) 22:50, 4 February 2026 (UTC)

==Class infobox blocks are shifting layout and moves parts of first entry in lists they are above==

Good example is Previous discussions block in this page. It has too low width or margins, so flex layout wraps first entry in list around it. [[User:Banana|Banana]] ([[User talk:Banana|talk]]) 22:53, 4 February 2026 (UTC)

==w/Special:Preferences header has no background==

w/Special:Preferences has same header functions as other pages header, but has other styling [[User:Banana|Banana]] ([[User talk:Banana|talk]]) 22:59, 4 February 2026 (UTC)

==Category:Wiki root subcategories with 1 article should be always in expanded state==

This will reduce amount of clicks to some articles and make user experience little touch better [[User:Banana|Banana]] ([[User talk:Banana|talk]]) 23:00, 4 February 2026 (UTC)

==Width radio buttons in Appearance section of vector-sticky-pinned-container navbar does not change anything==

Tested in chrome and firefox, both Linux (ubuntu 24.04 lts + KDE) and Mac. Width radio buttons don't change anything in any page I opened to check it out. [[User:Banana|Banana]] ([[User talk:Banana|talk]]) 23:04, 4 February 2026 (UTC)

==/Sandbox and /Sandbox/Welcome are redundant==

/Sandbox/Welcome is looking same and does absolutely same stuff as /Sandbox [[User:Banana|Banana]] ([[User talk:Banana|talk]]) 23:22, 4 February 2026 (UTC)

==Ability to edit Main Page.css and Main Page/Portals in Special:UncategorizedPages is bit of security issue==

I'd consider hiding that pages or adding permissions required to edit them, as both can be used for malicious actions. WIth css it will be just okay, let's make this look like circus or unusable, but with Portals you can embed external links directly in them. [[User:Banana|Banana]] ([[User talk:Banana|talk]]) 23:25, 4 February 2026 (UTC)

:If those pages can be modified through a special page without authentication then yes that is a security issue. Please notify the team at the email address listed at the top of this as that would get this deal with faster. For now, I will pass this on to our team for a review but just now in the future, there is an email for security concerns that gets checked more frequently- [[User:Atsumari|Atsumari]] ([[User talk:Atsumari|talk]]) 23:52, 28 February 2026 (UTC)

==vector-sticky-pinned-container navbar hide button pinning to static header is counterintuitive==

If you click on hide option, It creates just another button in static header, which is super confusing for those who have not a lot of technical knowledge [[User:Banana|Banana]] ([[User talk:Banana|talk]]) 23:31, 4 February 2026 (UTC)

:Same with tools being pinned to vector-menu-content-list [[User:Banana|Banana]] ([[User talk:Banana|talk]]) 23:38, 4 February 2026 (UTC)

==w/Special:Preferences ⧼prefs-reading⧽ key is not parsed==

This value is fallbacked as key name because it points to non existing entry [[User:Banana|Banana]] ([[User talk:Banana|talk]]) 23:33, 4 February 2026 (UTC)

==Caching issue with mobile view==

Pages not rendering the correct view [[User:JakeL|JakeL]] ([[User talk:JakeL|talk]]) 14:31, 14 February 2026 (UTC)

:Fixed [[User:JakeL|JakeL]] ([[User talk:JakeL|talk]]) 01:42, 22 February 2026 (UTC)

Consumer Rights Wiki talk:Moderators' noticeboard

2026-02-28T23:49:36Z

Atsumari: /* May I ask are you going to transition from Discord to Matrix (Not the movie)? */ Reply

<div style="margin: {{#ifeq:{{{navbox|<noinclude>yes</noinclude>}}}|yes|2px}} 0 0.5em; padding: 0.5em; {{{style|border: 1px solid #A0A5AD;}}} {{{backgroundstyle|background-color: var(--background-color-progressive-subtle, #eaf3ff); color: inherit;}}}">
<div style="padding: 0.25em 0; text-align: center; font-size: 120%; border-radius: 3px; font-weight: bold; {{{titlestyle|background-color: var(--background-color-content-added, #aad1ff); color: inherit;}}}">Welcome — post issues of interest to Moderators</div>
*Post '''appeals''' to article notice templates (e.g. Incomplete, Stub, etc.)
*Post requests for '''moderator action''' here (e.g. blocks)
*Just need a mod? Post here or ping a mod with a question.
*Post any information or news relevant to the moderation team here.
*To request an article to be created, do not post here, try [[Article suggestions]] instead.
*Do not report technical issues here, please use the [[Consumer Rights Wiki talk:Bugs|Bugs noticeboard]] instead.

<div style="padding: 0.25em 0; text-align: center; font-size: 150%; border-radius: 3px; font-weight: bold">[[Special:NewSection/Consumer Rights Wiki talk:Moderators' noticeboard|Start a new section]]</div>
</div>
<br />
{{Archives}} 
==Open tasks==

*[[:Category:Articles with deletion requests]]
*[[:Category:Articles with merge requests]]
*[[:Category:Articles marked as irrelevant]]
*[[Special:NewPages]]

==stub notice bug==

I tried submitting my deletion req for [[FakePortal]] but get hit with "Stub notices can NOT be removed by users with normal privileges". Tried removing the unused infoboxes in [[WhatsApp]], [[GoGuardian]], [[Asus]] and [[Roblox]], and the same dice. w h y? [[User:SinexTitan|SinexTitan]] ([[User talk:SinexTitan|talk]]) 19:31, 12 January 2026 (UTC)

:I'll check this out now [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|'''''AnotherConsumerRightsPerson''''']] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 18:19, 13 January 2026 (UTC)
::This seems to be a regular issue with the abuse filter [[Consumer_Rights_Wiki_talk:Bugs#How_do_you_edit_beginning_of_an_article_with_StubNotice?|which absolutely has been talked about before]]. It's very annoying and in my opinion we need some sort of edit request system or a new group given to users to bypass the filter, but for now I'll just check the abuse log and apply the edit manually myself. [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|'''''AnotherConsumerRightsPerson''''']] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 18:28, 13 January 2026 (UTC)
:The issue is when edits are made in-line with a stub notice, as (iirc) the filter checks for edits to the same line as the change [[User:Keith|Keith]] ([[User talk:Keith|talk]]) 00:50, 20 January 2026 (UTC)
::the notice* [[User:Keith|Keith]] ([[User talk:Keith|talk]]) 00:50, 20 January 2026 (UTC)
:::hey can this please be fixed? it's really damn annoying. removal of redundant infoboxes on [[Deep Cycle Systems]] and [[Allstate]] are triggering it [[User:SinexTitan|SinexTitan]] ([[User talk:SinexTitan|talk]]) 14:39, 25 January 2026 (UTC)
::::I can remove these now. It would be cool if a usergroup would dodge the filter. [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|'''''AnotherConsumerRightsPerson''''']] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 15:01, 25 January 2026 (UTC)
:::::yeah, I wonder if we should create a 'superconfirmed' group or something, which doesn't have the banning powers of a mod but can edit article notices. [[User:Keith|Keith]] ([[User talk:Keith|talk]]) 00:19, 18 February 2026 (UTC)
::I had the same issue. Just noticed this section. [[User:Luigi2262|Luigi2262]] ([[User talk:Luigi2262|talk]]) 19:45, 25 February 2026 (UTC)
:::@[[User:Luigi2262|Luigi2262]] {{Done}} your edit! [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|'''''AnotherConsumerRightsPerson''''']] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 20:38, 25 February 2026 (UTC)
::::Thank you. [[User:Luigi2262|Luigi2262]] ([[User talk:Luigi2262|talk]]) 20:45, 25 February 2026 (UTC)

==Idea for a new section==

An "Important" / "Must-Reads" / "Starter Pack" / "Essential Reading" section showing the most important articles to view for someone new to the Consumer Rights scene, or just someone unknowing.

Furthermore, the ability to rate an article. Perhaps as a way to show which matters are trending, because of many people having said problem with said device/service. Could be a "Saved me!", "Worked", "Didn't work", where "Saved me!" can only be used maybe once a day, to show which issues a not just trending, but very crucial. These ratings could help place relevant articles at the top of a second section within "Important"/Whatever.

These two sections would give users a place to scroll and skim through, to see if there are any matters relevant for them, like a random product they own, that they didn't know had a Consumer Rights issue.

Additionally; the ability to give pledges to article writers/editors. I'm not fully sure how it would work at the moment, but it would give people a way to support editors that produce important relevant articles. Perhaps the site could take a small cut, which both contributes to funding the server costs or the "legal fund" that Rossman mentioned, but also gives people a bigger incentive to pledge to editors, knowing that some of it goes to supporting the website and its users. [[User:Sebandar|Sebandar]] ([[User talk:Sebandar|talk]]) 19:57, 23 January 2026 (UTC)

:I would appreciate a pane with "must-reads" on the main page that highlights the articles with the widest spread effects and only includes well-written articles. Putting some articles in the same industry, like articles on Apple and Google's app store restrictions, would be especially effective, because it's nearly guaranteed that one of these applies to the reader. If you want to make a draft of this somewhere I would be down to help work on it.
:I like the article rating idea. I don't know how difficult it would be to add interactive content like this to the wiki, but it sounds like a good way to receive feedback. The only official way to receive feedback currently is on the talk pages but those are all pretty dead. Some prioritization on pageviews or feedback would be nice.
:On pledges, Wikipedia actually has something like this, it has a [[wikipedia:Wikipedia:Reward_board|reward board]] where users are offered barnstars or real money to improve articles, but it's not used very much. Most users seem to be offering up prizes only for the fun of doing so, not because it's particularly effective. If the content is relevant and/or interesting, someone probably is already working on it. I don't personally think this site needs an economy but if it were to be implemented, I think we should plug donations to FULU or other affiliated foundations on the main page and then have those foundations offer microgrants for editors. [[User:Bythmusters|Bythmusters]] ([[User talk:Bythmusters|talk]]) 16:02, 25 January 2026 (UTC)
::I'd probably agree with you that this isn't needed - creating an economy/bounty system is probably overkill, and unnecessarily complex at this stage. I think article ratings etc. are probably something best handled through the [[Projects:Hub|projects]] system, similar to how Wikipedia uses it for things like this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Molecular_Biology/Molecular_and_Cell_Biology . creating a project like that for each article type could be a pretty decent way of going about it? [[User:Keith|Keith]] ([[User talk:Keith|talk]]) 12:57, 28 February 2026 (UTC)

==Form pages==

I made a change to [[Form:Company]] following Discord suggestion #181. I was going to add this to [[Form:Product]] and [[Form:ProductLine]] but these pages are protected.

So, I am requesting an edit to those two pages to replace "(supported file types = PNG|JPG)" with "(supported file types = JPG, PNG, SVG)" to represent the fact that SVGs are allowed, and also to admin-protect [[Form:Company]] since that's an important page. [[User:Bythmusters|Bythmusters]] ([[User talk:Bythmusters|talk]]) 13:13, 25 January 2026 (UTC)

==“Summaries” of articles==

I'd like to propose an idea that I think would help people read articles in a rush. Add a box at the top of all long pages (e.g. [[YouTube]], or all that aren't stubs or marked as incomplete) that summarises the article (the incidents the company has been involved in, what it does, etc) in a couple of sentences. Let me know what you think. [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|'''''AnotherConsumerRightsPerson''''']] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 15:17, 25 January 2026 (UTC)

:What makes this different from a lead paragraph? Would you replace the lead paragraph entirely with this template or would it be a complementary resource with links to related company/product/theme articles? You could link to categories/other articles there. I think categories on wikis in general are overlooked by most readers and putting them at the top sounds interesting. [[User:Bythmusters|Bythmusters]] ([[User talk:Bythmusters|talk]]) 16:07, 25 January 2026 (UTC)

==InfoboxCompany to CargoCompany cleanup part 2==

The companies have all been moved over now, the only [https://consumerrights.wiki/w/Special:WhatLinksHere?target=Template%3AInfoboxCompany&namespace=&limit=50 places that InfoboxCompany exist in] are in some documentation out of main namespace and on these pages where they were placed on the same line as a notice:
[[AirAsia]], [[Deep Cycle Systems]], [[Allstate]], [[Happiest Baby]], [[Verisk Analytics, Inc.]], [[DAZN]], [[Federal Communications Commission]], [[Anova Culinary]], [[Sig Sauer]], [[RepairShopr]]

Converting InfoboxProductLine and finding more pages without infoboxes or cargo... sometime. [[User:Bythmusters|Bythmusters]] ([[User talk:Bythmusters|talk]]) 15:44, 25 January 2026 (UTC)

:Still need these removed if anyone has 5 minutes:
:[[AirAsia]], [[Allstate]], [[Happiest Baby]], [[Verisk Analytics, Inc.]], [[DAZN]], [[Federal Communications Commission]] [[User:Bythmusters|Bythmusters]] ([[User talk:Bythmusters|talk]]) 19:51, 29 January 2026 (UTC)
::{{Done}}. Sorry for taking so long. It'd be nice if there was a usergroup that could dodge all the edit filters. [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|'''''AnotherConsumerRightsPerson''''']] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 20:07, 7 February 2026 (UTC)

==Color scheme==

The main Sitenotice text is nearly the same color as the link inside of it, making it hard to distinguish where the link is if you haven't clicked the link yet. A larger contrast would be nice, since the notice is going to be up for another 25 days or so. https://consumerrights.wiki/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Sitenotice&action=edit

This also applies to most of the main page, blue/muddy purple on blue doesn't look the best, but that's a larger undertaking. If the main page is up for redesign it would be nice to take the color contrast into consideration. [[User:Bythmusters|Bythmusters]] ([[User talk:Bythmusters|talk]]) 16:15, 25 January 2026 (UTC)

:I've simply made it black and white, although I don't think it is entirely fixed it. [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|'''''AnotherConsumerRightsPerson''''']] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 17:39, 26 January 2026 (UTC)
::Please can nobody amend the theme or any elements currently, I am restyling the website. [[User:JakeL|JakeL]] ([[User talk:JakeL|talk]]) 17:41, 26 January 2026 (UTC)
:::Oh, sorry. [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|'''''AnotherConsumerRightsPerson''''']] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 17:57, 26 January 2026 (UTC)
:::Looks great, and has nice contrast! [[User:Bythmusters|Bythmusters]] ([[User talk:Bythmusters|talk]]) 18:56, 26 January 2026 (UTC)
::::Thank you! Still somewhat of a work in progress, but definitely a significant improvement over the previous version. [[User:JakeL|JakeL]] ([[User talk:JakeL|talk]]) 18:59, 26 January 2026 (UTC)
:::::Yeah, I like it too! As an idea, make the borders rounded like the original one. [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|'''''AnotherConsumerRightsPerson''''']] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 07:52, 27 January 2026 (UTC)
::::::No worries, all done! [[User:JakeL|JakeL]] ([[User talk:JakeL|talk]]) 19:09, 27 January 2026 (UTC)
:::::::Wow, this looks amazing now. [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|'''''AnotherConsumerRightsPerson''''']] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 07:30, 28 January 2026 (UTC)

==Template troubles==

So, a lot of the articles with [[Template:Incomplete]] and cargo templates that display a box (any but IncidentCargo) have big foreheads right now (see a list of articles with Incomplete [https://consumerrights.wiki/index.php?title=Special:WhatLinksHere/Template:Incomplete&limit=100 here]). I did some testing, the Incomplete template itself doesn't have a trailing newline, and none of the cargos have a preceding newline. A <nowiki><p><br></nowiki><nowiki></p></nowiki> is being added by the parser when the two are put together, and only when they are not on the same line. I've also seen this in the wild with [[Template:SloppyAI]] and with [[Template:Welcome]] on new user talk pages. Welcome should be a simple edit fix since it's not combined with other templates, but it seems that anytime templates are combined, they must be put on the same line or they will introduce an unintended newline. You can see an instance of Incomplete and SloppyAI together causing problems on [[Samsung TVs]].

Many Wikipedia pages have several templates next to each other without this problem, for example see [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=2025%E2%80%932026_Iranian_protests&oldid=1334922628 2025-2026 Iranian protests]. So the problem is solvable in MediaWiki, but I don't know how much work is required to do so. According to [[:Category:Todo]], over 700 articles have these banners, which is the majority of the wiki.

If other people think it's important too, I can work on this, but I don't know how to compare this wiki's configuration against stuff in the MediaWiki documentation. [[User:Bythmusters|Bythmusters]] ([[User talk:Bythmusters|talk]]) 13:35, 26 January 2026 (UTC)

:Oh yeah, some junk from my experimenting that we should delete once the problem is resolved: [[User:Bythmusters/templatetesting]], [[Qwerty]] [[User:Bythmusters|Bythmusters]] ([[User talk:Bythmusters|talk]]) 13:37, 26 January 2026 (UTC)
::Do you mean the top has more height than the rest of the box? I'm not entirely sure what you are talking about. [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|'''''AnotherConsumerRightsPerson''''']] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 16:42, 26 January 2026 (UTC)
:::Also, the Wiki's main config can be seen at [[MediaWiki:Common.css]] and [[MediaWiki:Common.js]], where all the css and js that you see the moment you load a page is at. [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|'''''AnotherConsumerRightsPerson''''']] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 17:34, 26 January 2026 (UTC)
:::So, let's compare these two versions:
:::https://consumerrights.wiki/index.php?title=User:Bythmusters/templatetesting&oldid=35089
:::https://consumerrights.wiki/index.php?title=User:Bythmusters/templatetesting&oldid=35091
:::There is an additional newline between the bottom of the template and the beginning of the article text. The only difference in the source text is:
:::<nowiki>"{\{Incomplete}}{\{ProductLineCargo"</nowiki>
:::vs:
:::<nowiki>"{\{Incomplete}}</nowiki>
:::{\{ProductLineCargo"
:::In the second one, there's a newline to separate the templates, as it's more natural to read in the source editor this way. Wikipedia articles do not render this newline, but CRW does. That is my issue, it takes up a lot of space on the screen.
:::Thanks for the links, I read through the Common.css and Common.js of this wiki and Wikipedia but I didn't see anything relevant. I think it's in the parser, where the mediawiki text gets converted into html but I don't know enough about this stuff to be sure. [[User:Bythmusters|Bythmusters]] ([[User talk:Bythmusters|talk]]) 18:53, 26 January 2026 (UTC)
::::Ah, okay. Reread your previous post and now feel like an idiot for not understanding. I don't know how to fix that if it's the parser. [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|'''''AnotherConsumerRightsPerson''''']] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 07:33, 28 January 2026 (UTC)
:::::Yeah idk it's probably not worth the trouble to fix. I like learning about mediawiki but not that much [[User:Bythmusters|Bythmusters]] ([[User talk:Bythmusters|talk]]) 15:55, 28 January 2026 (UTC)

==Feedback on changes to sidebar appearance and arrangement==

*I suggest renaming the "Tools" section for the web browser addon to something else to differentiate it from the wiki tools. I also recommend moving it to the way bottom, at least until it's ready for prime time, since it makes wiki editors have to scroll further to reach the wiki tools than previously.

*An option to hide the mini-list of recent changes and restore the single line "Recent Changes" for the original minimalist design.
**<strike>As an addendum: The font size of said mini-list is not consistent with the font size used both throughout the sidebar and the wiki itself, making it stand out like a sore thumb.</strike>

*An option to hide the community section for those of us that refuse to ever use [[Discord]]. I'd rather have a native choice available instead of resorting to a browser addon to remove it.

''(Note: Feedback is based on using Firefox v147.0.2 and the wiki skin "Vector legacy (2010)".)'' — [[User:Sojourna|Sojourna]] ([[User talk:Sojourna|talk]]) 21:32, 30 January 2026 (UTC)

:I’ve mentioned already that Vector legacy (2010) hasn’t been worked on yet, as most users are on Vector 2022 where these changes have been applied. The examples you listed aren’t present on the current default skin. I’d appreciate your patience while I get round to updating the legacy variant. In the meantime, I’ve resolved the issue where discussion tabs and similar tabs were hidden. [[User:JakeL|JakeL]] ([[User talk:JakeL|talk]]) 22:51, 30 January 2026 (UTC)

::Respectfully, I find your response confusing. What I bring up here is a separate matter from [[Consumer_Rights_Wiki_talk:Bugs#Page_tabs_hidden|my bug report]], and I posted ''only'' after first waiting a couple days and checked the default skin before-hand. I've struck out the one line since apparently it wasn't intentional like I had thought (and it had affected both legacy and default skins for the record), but otherwise my general feedback is unchanged.

::I appreciate the work you do on the wiki and thank you for fixing the bugged page tabs. — [[User:Sojourna|Sojourna]] ([[User talk:Sojourna|talk]]) 02:22, 11 February 2026 (UTC)
:::I understand that the feedback here is separate from the bug report, though I’m also a little confused: the default skin does not show the duplicated Tools section that the legacy version does, so I’m not sure how it would be confused with the wiki tools. It’s also already at the very bottom on the default skin. As for the other suggestions about hiding certain areas, I can look into those, but it won’t be a short-term fix. I appreciate the feedback and the kind words! [[User:JakeL|JakeL]] ([[User talk:JakeL|talk]]) 19:14, 11 February 2026 (UTC)

==What should this image be licensed under?==

This [[:Category:Suspected copyright violations|image I archived]] for Age Verification, I selected as "without permission" since I didn't see they licensed it under CC BY 4.0 at the time - yet the site rejected both IA and archive.today, which felt like they held the copyright. How should the content be tagged? (I

On another note, if you go to the [https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0747563217303357 site of the reference] and click "View PDF", after solving a Cloudflare "are you human" it grants access to the full pdf which has "© 2017 The Authors. Published by Elsevier Ltd. This is an open access article under the CC BY license (http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/4.0/)." as the footer of the first page. I wonder if that's the better way to go about archiving this reference.

Probably could have worded this better, thanks for your time. [[User:Raster|Raster]] ([[User talk:Raster|talk]]) 02:59, 2 February 2026 (UTC)

:I've deleted it while we figure out copyright status of this. [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|'''''AnotherConsumerRightsPerson''''']] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 16:35, 3 February 2026 (UTC)
::It seems to exist on the IA [https://web.archive.org/web/20190203021620/https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0747563217303357 here]. [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|'''''AnotherConsumerRightsPerson''''']] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 16:37, 3 February 2026 (UTC)
:::Unfortunately that snapshot only has the Abstract. I'm not the one that added the particular source, but it (may) be sufficient enough to add as an archive link for that particular source (talking about the [[Age Verification]] article in case anyone's confused), so I've gone and done so. Thanks for your input. [[User:Raster|Raster]] ([[User talk:Raster|talk]]) 04:34, 4 February 2026 (UTC)
::This can be safely undeleted. The copyright symbol is sometimes used for partial copyright (which Creative Commons is). A more suitable symbol would have been the "(cc)" (creative commons) symbol, but it is not a dedicated unicode character like "©". The document itself says it is Creative Commons, not "all rights reserved", so I see no reason not to undelete it. [[User:JodyBruchonFan|JodyBruchonFan]] ([[User talk:JodyBruchonFan|talk]]) 22:51, 4 February 2026 (UTC)

==Appeal Request==

On the article regarding [[Restaurant Brands International caught training AI models using customer voices|Restaurant Brand International]], I think that the source credibility issue lacks merit and should be removed, as I don't see how it could be lacking in source credibility due to (in my opinion) additional evidence backup with images and detail breakthrough of the event that would classify it as being trustworthy? Would like some thoughts and comments around this, very confused. [[User:SquidthePlummer|SquidthePlummer]] ([[User talk:SquidthePlummer|talk]]) 23:45, 13 February 2026 (UTC)

:Mr Pollo often does tagging like that, pinging @[[User:Mr Pollo|Mr Pollo]] for thoughts here. [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|'''''AnotherConsumerRightsPerson''''']] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 18:01, 14 February 2026 (UTC)
::Also, incomplete is often simply used for a short article, although it doesnt specify it in the notice. [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|'''''AnotherConsumerRightsPerson''''']] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 18:02, 14 February 2026 (UTC)
:Hello, I added the incomplete template to that article for two main reasons: aspects such as the Background section can be expanded into a paragraph and a "consumer response" section as seen [[Template:IncidentPreload|here]] would greatly benefit the article. So far it is a good article, but it can be better with my suggestions. [[User:Mr Pollo|Mr Pollo]] ([[User talk:Mr Pollo|talk]]) 20:47, 16 February 2026 (UTC)
::Now i see. I think that's fair and i agree! Thank you for clearing some things up, will definitely work on it as soon as I get the chance! [[User:SquidthePlummer|SquidthePlummer]] ([[User talk:SquidthePlummer|talk]]) 20:56, 16 February 2026 (UTC)
:::Of course, thank you as well for your contributions! [[User:Mr Pollo|Mr Pollo]] ([[User talk:Mr Pollo|talk]]) 21:05, 16 February 2026 (UTC)
::::No problem! it should be good now when you have the time to check, please let me know of any addition problems~@[[User:Mr Pollo|Mr Pollo]] [[User:SquidthePlummer|SquidthePlummer]] ([[User talk:SquidthePlummer|talk]]) 23:49, 17 February 2026 (UTC)
:::::forgot to add that regarding your previous comment on if you rule and welcome really happened, yes and I can confirm with screenshots or whatever necessary for whatever link you couldn't access. [[User:SquidthePlummer|SquidthePlummer]] ([[User talk:SquidthePlummer|talk]]) 00:02, 18 February 2026 (UTC)
::::::I've removed the notice! [[User:Keith|Keith]] ([[User talk:Keith|talk]]) 00:17, 18 February 2026 (UTC)
:::::The article looks good, didn’t notice any new problems. Nice work! [[User:Mr Pollo|Mr Pollo]] ([[User talk:Mr Pollo|talk]]) 14:20, 18 February 2026 (UTC)

==Archive.today weaponising PCs into causing DDoS attacks==

Hello, I just wanted to bring up the fact that Archive.today has recently decided to DDoS a random blog using people visiting their site (without them even realising) because they disliked a page on it. This doesn't exactly make me very happy with using the service for archiving links if they willingly do things like that. [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|'''''AnotherConsumerRightsPerson''''']] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 15:11, 19 February 2026 (UTC)

:That is concerning, afaik it's basically just run by one person so that's always a risk factor. Internet archive still has the issue of being pretty compliant when faced with DMCA takedowns, but at least it's a bit more of an institution...
:Do you think we should pull it as a recommended archive site over this? does result in a bit of a single-point-of-failure with IA. [[User:Keith|Keith]] ([[User talk:Keith|talk]]) 15:17, 19 February 2026 (UTC)
::Maybe wait it out for a little while, see what Wikipedia does, and then copy them? from the looks of it there's a lot of discussion going on about it over there. [[User:Keith|Keith]] ([[User talk:Keith|talk]]) 15:25, 19 February 2026 (UTC)
:::https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Requests_for_comment/Archive.is_RFC_5 [[User:Keith|Keith]] ([[User talk:Keith|talk]]) 15:26, 19 February 2026 (UTC)
::::Seems like a good plan. [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|'''''AnotherConsumerRightsPerson''''']] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 15:36, 19 February 2026 (UTC)
:::::It's been closed as deprecate archive.today. [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|'''''AnotherConsumerRightsPerson''''']] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 08:05, 20 February 2026 (UTC)
::::::As the saying goes, "This is informative, and unfortunate".
::::::My main concern with IA is its aging maintainers (which I can no longer verify on the site), but this does seem to be a more pressing issue. Will look into re-archiving pages I've done in the past. [[User:Raster|Raster]] ([[User talk:Raster|talk]]) 09:34, 20 February 2026 (UTC)
:::::::This seems extremely far fetched, but I'd like if the FULU Foundation themselves could make an archiving service. This sounds ridiculous but just putting it out there in case it is possible. [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|'''''AnotherConsumerRightsPerson''''']] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 10:24, 20 February 2026 (UTC)
::::::::Pulled it from the recommended archiving lists, @[[User:Keith|Keith]] you can change it back if you disagree. [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|'''''AnotherConsumerRightsPerson''''']] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 10:28, 20 February 2026 (UTC) <sub>Edit: Was a bit hasty of me, I've reinstated it with a warning. [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|'''''AnotherConsumerRightsPerson''''']] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 12:53, 20 February 2026 (UTC)</sub>
::::::::we have considered self-hosting an archivebox instance or similar, with the ability to create archive pages locked behind a confirmed wiki account. Cost wise (including the time cost of setup and maintenance), it's feasible but not ideal, so i wouldn't count on it happening unless things really go to shit with the big archivers. [[User:Keith|Keith]] ([[User talk:Keith|talk]]) 01:35, 22 February 2026 (UTC)
:::::::::OK, actually looking through and reading the reasons given for the consensus view, I'd be happy to adopt it, and will un-undo your edits and just take it off, leaving an explanation.
:::::::::the fact that the maintainer has been credibly alleged to have altered the content of sites hosted there is the biggest concern for me, as having a reliable record is kind of the whole point.
:::::::::going to @[[User:Banana|Banana]] here to see this discussion since he's been working on an archive bot for citations. [[User:Keith|Keith]] ([[User talk:Keith|talk]]) 01:41, 22 February 2026 (UTC)
::::::::::I've created [[Special:AbuseFilter/14]] for links. [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|'''''AnotherConsumerRightsPerson''''']] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 15:33, 22 February 2026 (UTC)
::::::::I agree with this. but being a US org wouldn't they also be mandated to honor the DMCA? and hence have the same issues as IA? idk much abt the hosting aspect of it but many shadow sites exist that do not at all honor the DMCA. [[User:SinexTitan|SinexTitan]] ([[User talk:SinexTitan|talk]]) 16:03, 22 February 2026 (UTC)
:::::::::From what I've seen they've done malicious things like making seperate web crawlers that do the same thing to make it harder to block it and also not honoring the DMCA which from my understanding has gotten them into legal issues. [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|'''''AnotherConsumerRightsPerson''''']] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 16:20, 22 February 2026 (UTC)
:thanks for letting us know! will definetly be using alternative means of archiving for now on! [[User:SquidthePlummer|SquidthePlummer]] ([[User talk:SquidthePlummer|talk]]) 02:43, 21 February 2026 (UTC)

==banning Discord from citations==

[[OpenAI#cite_ref-5]] is a Discord link. As a non user of Discord I cannot see what has been cited. people should not be required to create an account to view the source of a claim. [[User:SinexTitan|SinexTitan]] ([[User talk:SinexTitan|talk]]) 16:11, 22 February 2026 (UTC)

:Agreed. Ive removed it. [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|'''''AnotherConsumerRightsPerson''''']] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 16:26, 22 February 2026 (UTC)

==[[special:AbuseFilter/14]]==

Hi, can someone with good knowledge of the abuse filter code fix or tell me how to fix this? [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|'''''AnotherConsumerRightsPerson''''']] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 21:06, 22 February 2026 (UTC)

:I've fixed this and it's now working [[User:JakeL|JakeL]] ([[User talk:JakeL|talk]]) 03:08, 25 February 2026 (UTC)
::Thanks! [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|'''''AnotherConsumerRightsPerson''''']] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 06:13, 25 February 2026 (UTC)

==Is Bloatware still a stub?==

[[Bloatware|This article]] seems less of a stub compared to [[Ad block]] [[User:Rudxain|Rudxain]] ([[User talk:Rudxain|talk]]) 23:59, 23 February 2026 (UTC)

:Unsure on this one. I don't think any mods passed by it and tagged that one, so I've tagged Ad block now. I'm leaning to de-stub it but I'm still not entirely sure. [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|'''''AnotherConsumerRightsPerson''''']] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 17:11, 24 February 2026 (UTC)

==Potential website bug==

I made my new page (unlocking technology act of 2013) on mobile, where I could not use the shortcut to make proper references according to Rossmann's guide video, so I had just included links to the sources used instead. I got back here on a computer and attempted to fix them, but I ran into a problem. I had previously added a stub notice to my article. While I did not attempt to remove the stub notice in my edits while fixing the references, I still got the message that I could not remove the notice, and it would not accept my edit. I cannot fix the article as things are. [[User:Luigi2262|Luigi2262]] ([[User talk:Luigi2262|talk]]) 03:28, 25 February 2026 (UTC)

:The wiki has always had the irritating behavior of a notice tag (whether Incomplete, Stub, etc.) forbidding any in-line editing, even if it's only to place a page's cargo template on a new line separate from the tag.
:And I know you've already commented under the [[Consumer Rights Wiki talk:Moderators' noticeboard#stub notice bug|stub notice bug]] discussion, but I figure it'll be good to make note here as well. — [[User:Sojourna|Sojourna]] ([[User talk:Sojourna|talk]]) 06:18, 27 February 2026 (UTC)

==What should I do once my article is finished==

Should I leave it in that place <nowiki>https://consumerrights.wiki/w/User:%5E%26*/Digital_Ownership_Superact</nowiki>? [[User:^&*|^&*]] ([[User talk:^&*|talk]]) 18:09, 27 February 2026 (UTC)

:Oh yes this link https://consumerrights.wiki/index.php?title=Digital_Ownership_Superact&redirect=no, this link is there to fix the broken redirect left (SixenTitan did that iirc) I have done the article what should I do? [[User:^&*|^&*]] ([[User talk:^&*|talk]]) 19:27, 27 February 2026 (UTC)
::as [[Digital Ownership Superact]] already exists I could not move [[User:^&*/Digital Ownership Superact]] to it. idk how articles are merged or supplanted or if I have such perms. but what I can do is copy over the content which I did. [[User:SinexTitan|SinexTitan]] ([[User talk:SinexTitan|talk]]) 23:06, 27 February 2026 (UTC)
:::Thank you! [[User:^&*|^&*]] ([[User talk:^&*|talk]]) 23:18, 27 February 2026 (UTC)

==May I ask are you going to transition from Discord to Matrix (Not the movie)?==

Just another genuine question. Sorry to bother you.

https://matrix.org/ [[User:^&*|^&*]] ([[User talk:^&*|talk]]) 19:37, 27 February 2026 (UTC)

:[[User_talk:Keith#alternative_to_Discord]] this might intrigue you [[User:SinexTitan|SinexTitan]] ([[User talk:SinexTitan|talk]]) 22:59, 27 February 2026 (UTC)
::Thanks for that too [[User:^&*|^&*]] ([[User talk:^&*|talk]]) 23:19, 27 February 2026 (UTC)
:We might be doing this. There is discussion on what’s going to happen if privacy stuff continues to occur with discord. Rest assured though that staff will keep everyone informed. Thanks for bringing this up and please let us know if you need anything else. - [[User:Atsumari|Atsumari]] ([[User talk:Atsumari|talk]]) 23:49, 28 February 2026 (UTC)

==Yum! relevance appeal==

the person that marked it irrelevant did it so w the justification of "because subject doesn't seem to be relevant to cases of "new" consumer exploitation". are incidents from 2014 really irrelevant? if so we got a lot of onions to chop [[User:SinexTitan|SinexTitan]] ([[User talk:SinexTitan|talk]]) 23:14, 27 February 2026 (UTC)

:{{done}} [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|'''''AnotherConsumerRightsPerson''''']] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 17:09, 28 February 2026 (UTC)

==Discord tone appeal==

Hi, on 13 September 2025 [https://consumerrights.wiki/index.php?title=Discord&oldid=24510 Beanie Bo put a tone notice] on [[Discord]]. It's been some time since then, so does the ToS and Privacy Policy still need to be described instead of in bullet point? What other things could be improved in clearing the tone warning? (if any)? Thanks. [[User:Raster|Raster]] ([[User talk:Raster|talk]]) 05:11, 28 February 2026 (UTC)

:I’ll get this flagged to Keith so we can review this internally - [[User:Atsumari|Atsumari]] ([[User talk:Atsumari|talk]]) 23:46, 28 February 2026 (UTC)

==can I get mod?==

the title's a half joke. can sm1 revert [[Talk:Razer]] to [https://consumerrights.wiki/index.php?title=Talk:Razer&oldid=36825 this] version? a rando replaced the topic alongside the discussion with a summarized line cuz they thought it was the article itself. I wasn't able to revert cuz of this. [[User:SinexTitan|SinexTitan]] ([[User talk:SinexTitan|talk]]) 06:11, 28 February 2026 (UTC)

{{Done}} [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|'''''AnotherConsumerRightsPerson''''']] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 17:07, 28 February 2026 (UTC)

Consumer Rights Wiki talk:Moderators' noticeboard

2026-02-28T23:46:41Z

Atsumari: /* Discord tone appeal */ Reply

<div style="margin: {{#ifeq:{{{navbox|<noinclude>yes</noinclude>}}}|yes|2px}} 0 0.5em; padding: 0.5em; {{{style|border: 1px solid #A0A5AD;}}} {{{backgroundstyle|background-color: var(--background-color-progressive-subtle, #eaf3ff); color: inherit;}}}">
<div style="padding: 0.25em 0; text-align: center; font-size: 120%; border-radius: 3px; font-weight: bold; {{{titlestyle|background-color: var(--background-color-content-added, #aad1ff); color: inherit;}}}">Welcome — post issues of interest to Moderators</div>
*Post '''appeals''' to article notice templates (e.g. Incomplete, Stub, etc.)
*Post requests for '''moderator action''' here (e.g. blocks)
*Just need a mod? Post here or ping a mod with a question.
*Post any information or news relevant to the moderation team here.
*To request an article to be created, do not post here, try [[Article suggestions]] instead.
*Do not report technical issues here, please use the [[Consumer Rights Wiki talk:Bugs|Bugs noticeboard]] instead.

<div style="padding: 0.25em 0; text-align: center; font-size: 150%; border-radius: 3px; font-weight: bold">[[Special:NewSection/Consumer Rights Wiki talk:Moderators' noticeboard|Start a new section]]</div>
</div>
<br />
{{Archives}} 
==Open tasks==

*[[:Category:Articles with deletion requests]]
*[[:Category:Articles with merge requests]]
*[[:Category:Articles marked as irrelevant]]
*[[Special:NewPages]]

==stub notice bug==

I tried submitting my deletion req for [[FakePortal]] but get hit with "Stub notices can NOT be removed by users with normal privileges". Tried removing the unused infoboxes in [[WhatsApp]], [[GoGuardian]], [[Asus]] and [[Roblox]], and the same dice. w h y? [[User:SinexTitan|SinexTitan]] ([[User talk:SinexTitan|talk]]) 19:31, 12 January 2026 (UTC)

:I'll check this out now [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|'''''AnotherConsumerRightsPerson''''']] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 18:19, 13 January 2026 (UTC)
::This seems to be a regular issue with the abuse filter [[Consumer_Rights_Wiki_talk:Bugs#How_do_you_edit_beginning_of_an_article_with_StubNotice?|which absolutely has been talked about before]]. It's very annoying and in my opinion we need some sort of edit request system or a new group given to users to bypass the filter, but for now I'll just check the abuse log and apply the edit manually myself. [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|'''''AnotherConsumerRightsPerson''''']] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 18:28, 13 January 2026 (UTC)
:The issue is when edits are made in-line with a stub notice, as (iirc) the filter checks for edits to the same line as the change [[User:Keith|Keith]] ([[User talk:Keith|talk]]) 00:50, 20 January 2026 (UTC)
::the notice* [[User:Keith|Keith]] ([[User talk:Keith|talk]]) 00:50, 20 January 2026 (UTC)
:::hey can this please be fixed? it's really damn annoying. removal of redundant infoboxes on [[Deep Cycle Systems]] and [[Allstate]] are triggering it [[User:SinexTitan|SinexTitan]] ([[User talk:SinexTitan|talk]]) 14:39, 25 January 2026 (UTC)
::::I can remove these now. It would be cool if a usergroup would dodge the filter. [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|'''''AnotherConsumerRightsPerson''''']] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 15:01, 25 January 2026 (UTC)
:::::yeah, I wonder if we should create a 'superconfirmed' group or something, which doesn't have the banning powers of a mod but can edit article notices. [[User:Keith|Keith]] ([[User talk:Keith|talk]]) 00:19, 18 February 2026 (UTC)
::I had the same issue. Just noticed this section. [[User:Luigi2262|Luigi2262]] ([[User talk:Luigi2262|talk]]) 19:45, 25 February 2026 (UTC)
:::@[[User:Luigi2262|Luigi2262]] {{Done}} your edit! [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|'''''AnotherConsumerRightsPerson''''']] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 20:38, 25 February 2026 (UTC)
::::Thank you. [[User:Luigi2262|Luigi2262]] ([[User talk:Luigi2262|talk]]) 20:45, 25 February 2026 (UTC)

==Idea for a new section==

An "Important" / "Must-Reads" / "Starter Pack" / "Essential Reading" section showing the most important articles to view for someone new to the Consumer Rights scene, or just someone unknowing.

Furthermore, the ability to rate an article. Perhaps as a way to show which matters are trending, because of many people having said problem with said device/service. Could be a "Saved me!", "Worked", "Didn't work", where "Saved me!" can only be used maybe once a day, to show which issues a not just trending, but very crucial. These ratings could help place relevant articles at the top of a second section within "Important"/Whatever.

These two sections would give users a place to scroll and skim through, to see if there are any matters relevant for them, like a random product they own, that they didn't know had a Consumer Rights issue.

Additionally; the ability to give pledges to article writers/editors. I'm not fully sure how it would work at the moment, but it would give people a way to support editors that produce important relevant articles. Perhaps the site could take a small cut, which both contributes to funding the server costs or the "legal fund" that Rossman mentioned, but also gives people a bigger incentive to pledge to editors, knowing that some of it goes to supporting the website and its users. [[User:Sebandar|Sebandar]] ([[User talk:Sebandar|talk]]) 19:57, 23 January 2026 (UTC)

:I would appreciate a pane with "must-reads" on the main page that highlights the articles with the widest spread effects and only includes well-written articles. Putting some articles in the same industry, like articles on Apple and Google's app store restrictions, would be especially effective, because it's nearly guaranteed that one of these applies to the reader. If you want to make a draft of this somewhere I would be down to help work on it.
:I like the article rating idea. I don't know how difficult it would be to add interactive content like this to the wiki, but it sounds like a good way to receive feedback. The only official way to receive feedback currently is on the talk pages but those are all pretty dead. Some prioritization on pageviews or feedback would be nice.
:On pledges, Wikipedia actually has something like this, it has a [[wikipedia:Wikipedia:Reward_board|reward board]] where users are offered barnstars or real money to improve articles, but it's not used very much. Most users seem to be offering up prizes only for the fun of doing so, not because it's particularly effective. If the content is relevant and/or interesting, someone probably is already working on it. I don't personally think this site needs an economy but if it were to be implemented, I think we should plug donations to FULU or other affiliated foundations on the main page and then have those foundations offer microgrants for editors. [[User:Bythmusters|Bythmusters]] ([[User talk:Bythmusters|talk]]) 16:02, 25 January 2026 (UTC)
::I'd probably agree with you that this isn't needed - creating an economy/bounty system is probably overkill, and unnecessarily complex at this stage. I think article ratings etc. are probably something best handled through the [[Projects:Hub|projects]] system, similar to how Wikipedia uses it for things like this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Molecular_Biology/Molecular_and_Cell_Biology . creating a project like that for each article type could be a pretty decent way of going about it? [[User:Keith|Keith]] ([[User talk:Keith|talk]]) 12:57, 28 February 2026 (UTC)

==Form pages==

I made a change to [[Form:Company]] following Discord suggestion #181. I was going to add this to [[Form:Product]] and [[Form:ProductLine]] but these pages are protected.

So, I am requesting an edit to those two pages to replace "(supported file types = PNG|JPG)" with "(supported file types = JPG, PNG, SVG)" to represent the fact that SVGs are allowed, and also to admin-protect [[Form:Company]] since that's an important page. [[User:Bythmusters|Bythmusters]] ([[User talk:Bythmusters|talk]]) 13:13, 25 January 2026 (UTC)

==“Summaries” of articles==

I'd like to propose an idea that I think would help people read articles in a rush. Add a box at the top of all long pages (e.g. [[YouTube]], or all that aren't stubs or marked as incomplete) that summarises the article (the incidents the company has been involved in, what it does, etc) in a couple of sentences. Let me know what you think. [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|'''''AnotherConsumerRightsPerson''''']] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 15:17, 25 January 2026 (UTC)

:What makes this different from a lead paragraph? Would you replace the lead paragraph entirely with this template or would it be a complementary resource with links to related company/product/theme articles? You could link to categories/other articles there. I think categories on wikis in general are overlooked by most readers and putting them at the top sounds interesting. [[User:Bythmusters|Bythmusters]] ([[User talk:Bythmusters|talk]]) 16:07, 25 January 2026 (UTC)

==InfoboxCompany to CargoCompany cleanup part 2==

The companies have all been moved over now, the only [https://consumerrights.wiki/w/Special:WhatLinksHere?target=Template%3AInfoboxCompany&namespace=&limit=50 places that InfoboxCompany exist in] are in some documentation out of main namespace and on these pages where they were placed on the same line as a notice:
[[AirAsia]], [[Deep Cycle Systems]], [[Allstate]], [[Happiest Baby]], [[Verisk Analytics, Inc.]], [[DAZN]], [[Federal Communications Commission]], [[Anova Culinary]], [[Sig Sauer]], [[RepairShopr]]

Converting InfoboxProductLine and finding more pages without infoboxes or cargo... sometime. [[User:Bythmusters|Bythmusters]] ([[User talk:Bythmusters|talk]]) 15:44, 25 January 2026 (UTC)

:Still need these removed if anyone has 5 minutes:
:[[AirAsia]], [[Allstate]], [[Happiest Baby]], [[Verisk Analytics, Inc.]], [[DAZN]], [[Federal Communications Commission]] [[User:Bythmusters|Bythmusters]] ([[User talk:Bythmusters|talk]]) 19:51, 29 January 2026 (UTC)
::{{Done}}. Sorry for taking so long. It'd be nice if there was a usergroup that could dodge all the edit filters. [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|'''''AnotherConsumerRightsPerson''''']] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 20:07, 7 February 2026 (UTC)

==Color scheme==

The main Sitenotice text is nearly the same color as the link inside of it, making it hard to distinguish where the link is if you haven't clicked the link yet. A larger contrast would be nice, since the notice is going to be up for another 25 days or so. https://consumerrights.wiki/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Sitenotice&action=edit

This also applies to most of the main page, blue/muddy purple on blue doesn't look the best, but that's a larger undertaking. If the main page is up for redesign it would be nice to take the color contrast into consideration. [[User:Bythmusters|Bythmusters]] ([[User talk:Bythmusters|talk]]) 16:15, 25 January 2026 (UTC)

:I've simply made it black and white, although I don't think it is entirely fixed it. [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|'''''AnotherConsumerRightsPerson''''']] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 17:39, 26 January 2026 (UTC)
::Please can nobody amend the theme or any elements currently, I am restyling the website. [[User:JakeL|JakeL]] ([[User talk:JakeL|talk]]) 17:41, 26 January 2026 (UTC)
:::Oh, sorry. [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|'''''AnotherConsumerRightsPerson''''']] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 17:57, 26 January 2026 (UTC)
:::Looks great, and has nice contrast! [[User:Bythmusters|Bythmusters]] ([[User talk:Bythmusters|talk]]) 18:56, 26 January 2026 (UTC)
::::Thank you! Still somewhat of a work in progress, but definitely a significant improvement over the previous version. [[User:JakeL|JakeL]] ([[User talk:JakeL|talk]]) 18:59, 26 January 2026 (UTC)
:::::Yeah, I like it too! As an idea, make the borders rounded like the original one. [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|'''''AnotherConsumerRightsPerson''''']] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 07:52, 27 January 2026 (UTC)
::::::No worries, all done! [[User:JakeL|JakeL]] ([[User talk:JakeL|talk]]) 19:09, 27 January 2026 (UTC)
:::::::Wow, this looks amazing now. [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|'''''AnotherConsumerRightsPerson''''']] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 07:30, 28 January 2026 (UTC)

==Template troubles==

So, a lot of the articles with [[Template:Incomplete]] and cargo templates that display a box (any but IncidentCargo) have big foreheads right now (see a list of articles with Incomplete [https://consumerrights.wiki/index.php?title=Special:WhatLinksHere/Template:Incomplete&limit=100 here]). I did some testing, the Incomplete template itself doesn't have a trailing newline, and none of the cargos have a preceding newline. A <nowiki><p><br></nowiki><nowiki></p></nowiki> is being added by the parser when the two are put together, and only when they are not on the same line. I've also seen this in the wild with [[Template:SloppyAI]] and with [[Template:Welcome]] on new user talk pages. Welcome should be a simple edit fix since it's not combined with other templates, but it seems that anytime templates are combined, they must be put on the same line or they will introduce an unintended newline. You can see an instance of Incomplete and SloppyAI together causing problems on [[Samsung TVs]].

Many Wikipedia pages have several templates next to each other without this problem, for example see [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=2025%E2%80%932026_Iranian_protests&oldid=1334922628 2025-2026 Iranian protests]. So the problem is solvable in MediaWiki, but I don't know how much work is required to do so. According to [[:Category:Todo]], over 700 articles have these banners, which is the majority of the wiki.

If other people think it's important too, I can work on this, but I don't know how to compare this wiki's configuration against stuff in the MediaWiki documentation. [[User:Bythmusters|Bythmusters]] ([[User talk:Bythmusters|talk]]) 13:35, 26 January 2026 (UTC)

:Oh yeah, some junk from my experimenting that we should delete once the problem is resolved: [[User:Bythmusters/templatetesting]], [[Qwerty]] [[User:Bythmusters|Bythmusters]] ([[User talk:Bythmusters|talk]]) 13:37, 26 January 2026 (UTC)
::Do you mean the top has more height than the rest of the box? I'm not entirely sure what you are talking about. [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|'''''AnotherConsumerRightsPerson''''']] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 16:42, 26 January 2026 (UTC)
:::Also, the Wiki's main config can be seen at [[MediaWiki:Common.css]] and [[MediaWiki:Common.js]], where all the css and js that you see the moment you load a page is at. [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|'''''AnotherConsumerRightsPerson''''']] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 17:34, 26 January 2026 (UTC)
:::So, let's compare these two versions:
:::https://consumerrights.wiki/index.php?title=User:Bythmusters/templatetesting&oldid=35089
:::https://consumerrights.wiki/index.php?title=User:Bythmusters/templatetesting&oldid=35091
:::There is an additional newline between the bottom of the template and the beginning of the article text. The only difference in the source text is:
:::<nowiki>"{\{Incomplete}}{\{ProductLineCargo"</nowiki>
:::vs:
:::<nowiki>"{\{Incomplete}}</nowiki>
:::{\{ProductLineCargo"
:::In the second one, there's a newline to separate the templates, as it's more natural to read in the source editor this way. Wikipedia articles do not render this newline, but CRW does. That is my issue, it takes up a lot of space on the screen.
:::Thanks for the links, I read through the Common.css and Common.js of this wiki and Wikipedia but I didn't see anything relevant. I think it's in the parser, where the mediawiki text gets converted into html but I don't know enough about this stuff to be sure. [[User:Bythmusters|Bythmusters]] ([[User talk:Bythmusters|talk]]) 18:53, 26 January 2026 (UTC)
::::Ah, okay. Reread your previous post and now feel like an idiot for not understanding. I don't know how to fix that if it's the parser. [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|'''''AnotherConsumerRightsPerson''''']] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 07:33, 28 January 2026 (UTC)
:::::Yeah idk it's probably not worth the trouble to fix. I like learning about mediawiki but not that much [[User:Bythmusters|Bythmusters]] ([[User talk:Bythmusters|talk]]) 15:55, 28 January 2026 (UTC)

==Feedback on changes to sidebar appearance and arrangement==

*I suggest renaming the "Tools" section for the web browser addon to something else to differentiate it from the wiki tools. I also recommend moving it to the way bottom, at least until it's ready for prime time, since it makes wiki editors have to scroll further to reach the wiki tools than previously.

*An option to hide the mini-list of recent changes and restore the single line "Recent Changes" for the original minimalist design.
**<strike>As an addendum: The font size of said mini-list is not consistent with the font size used both throughout the sidebar and the wiki itself, making it stand out like a sore thumb.</strike>

*An option to hide the community section for those of us that refuse to ever use [[Discord]]. I'd rather have a native choice available instead of resorting to a browser addon to remove it.

''(Note: Feedback is based on using Firefox v147.0.2 and the wiki skin "Vector legacy (2010)".)'' — [[User:Sojourna|Sojourna]] ([[User talk:Sojourna|talk]]) 21:32, 30 January 2026 (UTC)

:I’ve mentioned already that Vector legacy (2010) hasn’t been worked on yet, as most users are on Vector 2022 where these changes have been applied. The examples you listed aren’t present on the current default skin. I’d appreciate your patience while I get round to updating the legacy variant. In the meantime, I’ve resolved the issue where discussion tabs and similar tabs were hidden. [[User:JakeL|JakeL]] ([[User talk:JakeL|talk]]) 22:51, 30 January 2026 (UTC)

::Respectfully, I find your response confusing. What I bring up here is a separate matter from [[Consumer_Rights_Wiki_talk:Bugs#Page_tabs_hidden|my bug report]], and I posted ''only'' after first waiting a couple days and checked the default skin before-hand. I've struck out the one line since apparently it wasn't intentional like I had thought (and it had affected both legacy and default skins for the record), but otherwise my general feedback is unchanged.

::I appreciate the work you do on the wiki and thank you for fixing the bugged page tabs. — [[User:Sojourna|Sojourna]] ([[User talk:Sojourna|talk]]) 02:22, 11 February 2026 (UTC)
:::I understand that the feedback here is separate from the bug report, though I’m also a little confused: the default skin does not show the duplicated Tools section that the legacy version does, so I’m not sure how it would be confused with the wiki tools. It’s also already at the very bottom on the default skin. As for the other suggestions about hiding certain areas, I can look into those, but it won’t be a short-term fix. I appreciate the feedback and the kind words! [[User:JakeL|JakeL]] ([[User talk:JakeL|talk]]) 19:14, 11 February 2026 (UTC)

==What should this image be licensed under?==

This [[:Category:Suspected copyright violations|image I archived]] for Age Verification, I selected as "without permission" since I didn't see they licensed it under CC BY 4.0 at the time - yet the site rejected both IA and archive.today, which felt like they held the copyright. How should the content be tagged? (I

On another note, if you go to the [https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0747563217303357 site of the reference] and click "View PDF", after solving a Cloudflare "are you human" it grants access to the full pdf which has "© 2017 The Authors. Published by Elsevier Ltd. This is an open access article under the CC BY license (http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/4.0/)." as the footer of the first page. I wonder if that's the better way to go about archiving this reference.

Probably could have worded this better, thanks for your time. [[User:Raster|Raster]] ([[User talk:Raster|talk]]) 02:59, 2 February 2026 (UTC)

:I've deleted it while we figure out copyright status of this. [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|'''''AnotherConsumerRightsPerson''''']] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 16:35, 3 February 2026 (UTC)
::It seems to exist on the IA [https://web.archive.org/web/20190203021620/https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0747563217303357 here]. [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|'''''AnotherConsumerRightsPerson''''']] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 16:37, 3 February 2026 (UTC)
:::Unfortunately that snapshot only has the Abstract. I'm not the one that added the particular source, but it (may) be sufficient enough to add as an archive link for that particular source (talking about the [[Age Verification]] article in case anyone's confused), so I've gone and done so. Thanks for your input. [[User:Raster|Raster]] ([[User talk:Raster|talk]]) 04:34, 4 February 2026 (UTC)
::This can be safely undeleted. The copyright symbol is sometimes used for partial copyright (which Creative Commons is). A more suitable symbol would have been the "(cc)" (creative commons) symbol, but it is not a dedicated unicode character like "©". The document itself says it is Creative Commons, not "all rights reserved", so I see no reason not to undelete it. [[User:JodyBruchonFan|JodyBruchonFan]] ([[User talk:JodyBruchonFan|talk]]) 22:51, 4 February 2026 (UTC)

==Appeal Request==

On the article regarding [[Restaurant Brands International caught training AI models using customer voices|Restaurant Brand International]], I think that the source credibility issue lacks merit and should be removed, as I don't see how it could be lacking in source credibility due to (in my opinion) additional evidence backup with images and detail breakthrough of the event that would classify it as being trustworthy? Would like some thoughts and comments around this, very confused. [[User:SquidthePlummer|SquidthePlummer]] ([[User talk:SquidthePlummer|talk]]) 23:45, 13 February 2026 (UTC)

:Mr Pollo often does tagging like that, pinging @[[User:Mr Pollo|Mr Pollo]] for thoughts here. [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|'''''AnotherConsumerRightsPerson''''']] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 18:01, 14 February 2026 (UTC)
::Also, incomplete is often simply used for a short article, although it doesnt specify it in the notice. [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|'''''AnotherConsumerRightsPerson''''']] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 18:02, 14 February 2026 (UTC)
:Hello, I added the incomplete template to that article for two main reasons: aspects such as the Background section can be expanded into a paragraph and a "consumer response" section as seen [[Template:IncidentPreload|here]] would greatly benefit the article. So far it is a good article, but it can be better with my suggestions. [[User:Mr Pollo|Mr Pollo]] ([[User talk:Mr Pollo|talk]]) 20:47, 16 February 2026 (UTC)
::Now i see. I think that's fair and i agree! Thank you for clearing some things up, will definitely work on it as soon as I get the chance! [[User:SquidthePlummer|SquidthePlummer]] ([[User talk:SquidthePlummer|talk]]) 20:56, 16 February 2026 (UTC)
:::Of course, thank you as well for your contributions! [[User:Mr Pollo|Mr Pollo]] ([[User talk:Mr Pollo|talk]]) 21:05, 16 February 2026 (UTC)
::::No problem! it should be good now when you have the time to check, please let me know of any addition problems~@[[User:Mr Pollo|Mr Pollo]] [[User:SquidthePlummer|SquidthePlummer]] ([[User talk:SquidthePlummer|talk]]) 23:49, 17 February 2026 (UTC)
:::::forgot to add that regarding your previous comment on if you rule and welcome really happened, yes and I can confirm with screenshots or whatever necessary for whatever link you couldn't access. [[User:SquidthePlummer|SquidthePlummer]] ([[User talk:SquidthePlummer|talk]]) 00:02, 18 February 2026 (UTC)
::::::I've removed the notice! [[User:Keith|Keith]] ([[User talk:Keith|talk]]) 00:17, 18 February 2026 (UTC)
:::::The article looks good, didn’t notice any new problems. Nice work! [[User:Mr Pollo|Mr Pollo]] ([[User talk:Mr Pollo|talk]]) 14:20, 18 February 2026 (UTC)

==Archive.today weaponising PCs into causing DDoS attacks==

Hello, I just wanted to bring up the fact that Archive.today has recently decided to DDoS a random blog using people visiting their site (without them even realising) because they disliked a page on it. This doesn't exactly make me very happy with using the service for archiving links if they willingly do things like that. [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|'''''AnotherConsumerRightsPerson''''']] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 15:11, 19 February 2026 (UTC)

:That is concerning, afaik it's basically just run by one person so that's always a risk factor. Internet archive still has the issue of being pretty compliant when faced with DMCA takedowns, but at least it's a bit more of an institution...
:Do you think we should pull it as a recommended archive site over this? does result in a bit of a single-point-of-failure with IA. [[User:Keith|Keith]] ([[User talk:Keith|talk]]) 15:17, 19 February 2026 (UTC)
::Maybe wait it out for a little while, see what Wikipedia does, and then copy them? from the looks of it there's a lot of discussion going on about it over there. [[User:Keith|Keith]] ([[User talk:Keith|talk]]) 15:25, 19 February 2026 (UTC)
:::https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Requests_for_comment/Archive.is_RFC_5 [[User:Keith|Keith]] ([[User talk:Keith|talk]]) 15:26, 19 February 2026 (UTC)
::::Seems like a good plan. [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|'''''AnotherConsumerRightsPerson''''']] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 15:36, 19 February 2026 (UTC)
:::::It's been closed as deprecate archive.today. [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|'''''AnotherConsumerRightsPerson''''']] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 08:05, 20 February 2026 (UTC)
::::::As the saying goes, "This is informative, and unfortunate".
::::::My main concern with IA is its aging maintainers (which I can no longer verify on the site), but this does seem to be a more pressing issue. Will look into re-archiving pages I've done in the past. [[User:Raster|Raster]] ([[User talk:Raster|talk]]) 09:34, 20 February 2026 (UTC)
:::::::This seems extremely far fetched, but I'd like if the FULU Foundation themselves could make an archiving service. This sounds ridiculous but just putting it out there in case it is possible. [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|'''''AnotherConsumerRightsPerson''''']] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 10:24, 20 February 2026 (UTC)
::::::::Pulled it from the recommended archiving lists, @[[User:Keith|Keith]] you can change it back if you disagree. [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|'''''AnotherConsumerRightsPerson''''']] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 10:28, 20 February 2026 (UTC) <sub>Edit: Was a bit hasty of me, I've reinstated it with a warning. [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|'''''AnotherConsumerRightsPerson''''']] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 12:53, 20 February 2026 (UTC)</sub>
::::::::we have considered self-hosting an archivebox instance or similar, with the ability to create archive pages locked behind a confirmed wiki account. Cost wise (including the time cost of setup and maintenance), it's feasible but not ideal, so i wouldn't count on it happening unless things really go to shit with the big archivers. [[User:Keith|Keith]] ([[User talk:Keith|talk]]) 01:35, 22 February 2026 (UTC)
:::::::::OK, actually looking through and reading the reasons given for the consensus view, I'd be happy to adopt it, and will un-undo your edits and just take it off, leaving an explanation.
:::::::::the fact that the maintainer has been credibly alleged to have altered the content of sites hosted there is the biggest concern for me, as having a reliable record is kind of the whole point.
:::::::::going to @[[User:Banana|Banana]] here to see this discussion since he's been working on an archive bot for citations. [[User:Keith|Keith]] ([[User talk:Keith|talk]]) 01:41, 22 February 2026 (UTC)
::::::::::I've created [[Special:AbuseFilter/14]] for links. [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|'''''AnotherConsumerRightsPerson''''']] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 15:33, 22 February 2026 (UTC)
::::::::I agree with this. but being a US org wouldn't they also be mandated to honor the DMCA? and hence have the same issues as IA? idk much abt the hosting aspect of it but many shadow sites exist that do not at all honor the DMCA. [[User:SinexTitan|SinexTitan]] ([[User talk:SinexTitan|talk]]) 16:03, 22 February 2026 (UTC)
:::::::::From what I've seen they've done malicious things like making seperate web crawlers that do the same thing to make it harder to block it and also not honoring the DMCA which from my understanding has gotten them into legal issues. [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|'''''AnotherConsumerRightsPerson''''']] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 16:20, 22 February 2026 (UTC)
:thanks for letting us know! will definetly be using alternative means of archiving for now on! [[User:SquidthePlummer|SquidthePlummer]] ([[User talk:SquidthePlummer|talk]]) 02:43, 21 February 2026 (UTC)

==banning Discord from citations==

[[OpenAI#cite_ref-5]] is a Discord link. As a non user of Discord I cannot see what has been cited. people should not be required to create an account to view the source of a claim. [[User:SinexTitan|SinexTitan]] ([[User talk:SinexTitan|talk]]) 16:11, 22 February 2026 (UTC)

:Agreed. Ive removed it. [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|'''''AnotherConsumerRightsPerson''''']] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 16:26, 22 February 2026 (UTC)

==[[special:AbuseFilter/14]]==

Hi, can someone with good knowledge of the abuse filter code fix or tell me how to fix this? [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|'''''AnotherConsumerRightsPerson''''']] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 21:06, 22 February 2026 (UTC)

:I've fixed this and it's now working [[User:JakeL|JakeL]] ([[User talk:JakeL|talk]]) 03:08, 25 February 2026 (UTC)
::Thanks! [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|'''''AnotherConsumerRightsPerson''''']] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 06:13, 25 February 2026 (UTC)

==Is Bloatware still a stub?==

[[Bloatware|This article]] seems less of a stub compared to [[Ad block]] [[User:Rudxain|Rudxain]] ([[User talk:Rudxain|talk]]) 23:59, 23 February 2026 (UTC)

:Unsure on this one. I don't think any mods passed by it and tagged that one, so I've tagged Ad block now. I'm leaning to de-stub it but I'm still not entirely sure. [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|'''''AnotherConsumerRightsPerson''''']] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 17:11, 24 February 2026 (UTC)

==Potential website bug==

I made my new page (unlocking technology act of 2013) on mobile, where I could not use the shortcut to make proper references according to Rossmann's guide video, so I had just included links to the sources used instead. I got back here on a computer and attempted to fix them, but I ran into a problem. I had previously added a stub notice to my article. While I did not attempt to remove the stub notice in my edits while fixing the references, I still got the message that I could not remove the notice, and it would not accept my edit. I cannot fix the article as things are. [[User:Luigi2262|Luigi2262]] ([[User talk:Luigi2262|talk]]) 03:28, 25 February 2026 (UTC)

:The wiki has always had the irritating behavior of a notice tag (whether Incomplete, Stub, etc.) forbidding any in-line editing, even if it's only to place a page's cargo template on a new line separate from the tag.
:And I know you've already commented under the [[Consumer Rights Wiki talk:Moderators' noticeboard#stub notice bug|stub notice bug]] discussion, but I figure it'll be good to make note here as well. — [[User:Sojourna|Sojourna]] ([[User talk:Sojourna|talk]]) 06:18, 27 February 2026 (UTC)

==What should I do once my article is finished==

Should I leave it in that place <nowiki>https://consumerrights.wiki/w/User:%5E%26*/Digital_Ownership_Superact</nowiki>? [[User:^&*|^&*]] ([[User talk:^&*|talk]]) 18:09, 27 February 2026 (UTC)

:Oh yes this link https://consumerrights.wiki/index.php?title=Digital_Ownership_Superact&redirect=no, this link is there to fix the broken redirect left (SixenTitan did that iirc) I have done the article what should I do? [[User:^&*|^&*]] ([[User talk:^&*|talk]]) 19:27, 27 February 2026 (UTC)
::as [[Digital Ownership Superact]] already exists I could not move [[User:^&*/Digital Ownership Superact]] to it. idk how articles are merged or supplanted or if I have such perms. but what I can do is copy over the content which I did. [[User:SinexTitan|SinexTitan]] ([[User talk:SinexTitan|talk]]) 23:06, 27 February 2026 (UTC)
:::Thank you! [[User:^&*|^&*]] ([[User talk:^&*|talk]]) 23:18, 27 February 2026 (UTC)

==May I ask are you going to transition from Discord to Matrix (Not the movie)?==

Just another genuine question. Sorry to bother you.

https://matrix.org/ [[User:^&*|^&*]] ([[User talk:^&*|talk]]) 19:37, 27 February 2026 (UTC)

:[[User_talk:Keith#alternative_to_Discord]] this might intrigue you [[User:SinexTitan|SinexTitan]] ([[User talk:SinexTitan|talk]]) 22:59, 27 February 2026 (UTC)
::Thanks for that too [[User:^&*|^&*]] ([[User talk:^&*|talk]]) 23:19, 27 February 2026 (UTC)

==Yum! relevance appeal==

the person that marked it irrelevant did it so w the justification of "because subject doesn't seem to be relevant to cases of "new" consumer exploitation". are incidents from 2014 really irrelevant? if so we got a lot of onions to chop [[User:SinexTitan|SinexTitan]] ([[User talk:SinexTitan|talk]]) 23:14, 27 February 2026 (UTC)

:{{done}} [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|'''''AnotherConsumerRightsPerson''''']] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 17:09, 28 February 2026 (UTC)

==Discord tone appeal==

Hi, on 13 September 2025 [https://consumerrights.wiki/index.php?title=Discord&oldid=24510 Beanie Bo put a tone notice] on [[Discord]]. It's been some time since then, so does the ToS and Privacy Policy still need to be described instead of in bullet point? What other things could be improved in clearing the tone warning? (if any)? Thanks. [[User:Raster|Raster]] ([[User talk:Raster|talk]]) 05:11, 28 February 2026 (UTC)

:I’ll get this flagged to Keith so we can review this internally - [[User:Atsumari|Atsumari]] ([[User talk:Atsumari|talk]]) 23:46, 28 February 2026 (UTC)

==can I get mod?==

the title's a half joke. can sm1 revert [[Talk:Razer]] to [https://consumerrights.wiki/index.php?title=Talk:Razer&oldid=36825 this] version? a rando replaced the topic alongside the discussion with a summarized line cuz they thought it was the article itself. I wasn't able to revert cuz of this. [[User:SinexTitan|SinexTitan]] ([[User talk:SinexTitan|talk]]) 06:11, 28 February 2026 (UTC)

{{Done}} [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|'''''AnotherConsumerRightsPerson''''']] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 17:07, 28 February 2026 (UTC)

Consumer Rights Wiki talk:Moderators' noticeboard

2026-01-03T20:45:49Z

Atsumari: /* Cloudflare trackers are on this site? */ Reply

Template:Main Page/Featured

2026-01-02T16:06:32Z

Atsumari:

{{Featured|List of products and services with forced arbitration||

This week we are featuring the list of companies that partake in forced arbitration. You can find more information aobut forced arbitration [[Forced arbitration|here]].

}}

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''Want to suggest a featured article? Add it to the [[Template_talk:Main_Page/Featured|discussion page]].''

Template:Main Page/Featured

2026-01-02T16:05:28Z

Atsumari:

{{Featured|List_of_products_and_services_with_forced_arbitration||

This week we are featuring the list of companies that partake in forced arbitration. You can find more information aobut forced arbitration [[Forced arbitration|here]].

}}

----
''Want to suggest a featured article? Add it to the [[Template_talk:Main_Page/Featured|discussion page]].''

Consumer Rights Wiki talk:Moderators' noticeboard

2025-12-23T19:40:04Z

Atsumari: /* Projects namespace is gone */ Reply

Talk:Molekule threatens to remotely shut down their app if purifiers used with third party air filters

2025-12-13T12:15:06Z

Atsumari: /* Additions to this article */ new section

== Additions to this article ==

Anyone believe taht the recent video from Louis on this about their CEO add any context taht needs added to this? [[User:Atsumari|Atsumari]] ([[User talk:Atsumari|talk]]) 12:15, 13 December 2025 (UTC)

Consumer Rights Wiki talk:Moderators' noticeboard

2025-12-09T22:36:08Z

Atsumari: /* Filter change */ Reply

Template:Main Page/Announcements

2025-12-02T13:13:26Z

Atsumari:

===2025-12-02===

We are happy to announce that we're launching the first couple of our project pages on the Wiki - These are going to be a collection of pages where we organise specific tasks that need completing and in a way that should make it easy for you guys to find edits you'd like to make. If you've avoided editing in the past due to being a bit intimidated about making big edits, you just weren't sure where your effort would be needed, or are new to editing, then these project pages might be a good place to look!

The first two are we have released are:
[[Projects:Archive everything|Archive everything]] - where we make the Wiki more resistant to link rot by archiving important links our articles use as references, and,
[[Projects:Cargo-complete|Cargo-complete]] - where we make sure that every article has its full set of metadata.,

The hub for project pages, where any future project pages will be listed, can be found here: https://consumerrights.wiki/w/Projects:Hub. We're also happy for people to suggest or propose ideas for future projects on the discussion page of the project hub!

===2025-10-04===

The Consumer Rights Wiki is now open-source!

Head over to our GitHub at https://github.com/FULU-Foundation/crw if you're interested in helping out with the codebase.

===2025-07-22===

We've just launched an update to the create-a-page flow for most pages, which now includes a form! This new form will collect a few basic details about the specific article you're creating, and will use your answers to auto-populate a table which will provide machine-readable information for third party projects (for company and product articles, it will also populate the infobox in the template!). This information will be used by projects like the in-development browser extension, as well as anyone who wants to access some hard data on the Wiki's pages.

Check it out by hitting the [[Consumer_Rights_Wiki:Create_page|create a page]] button in the sidebar!

===2025-07-03===

We're phasing out the [[Louis Rossmann - Video Directory|Louis Rossmann video directory]] in favour of a more general [[Article suggestions]] page, created by the eminent [[User:JamesTDG|JamesTDG]]!

This will allow anyone to contribute their (hopefully sourced!) ideas to the Wiki without needing to create a full article, and will provide an excellent repository of ideas for editors in need of inspiration.

===2025-06-10===

We're opening up applications for moderators! Please see [[Consumer_Rights_Wiki:Moderator_applications|here]] for full instructions on how to apply.

In short, we're looking for motivated individuals who are willing to patrol the Wiki, make sure that articles are up to scratch, and take actions to protect the wiki from spam or malicious content whenever appropriate.

===2025-01-30===

We made it easier for you to create a new article! Simply click on [[Consumer_Rights_Wiki:New_here|Create a page]] in the sidebar on the left, fill in the title for your page and click on "Create page".

Template:Main Page/Featured

2025-11-23T11:45:35Z

Atsumari: Spelling

{{Featured|Molekule threatens to remotely shut down their app if purifiers used with third party air filters||

In September 2025, air-purifier manufacturer Molekule emailed customers warning that any device using non-genuine "counterfeit" filters would lose remote operability via the app (one of the main reasons to purchase the device in the first place!). They shut off this access on September 22, enshittifying their product for anyone using third-party filters, which are much cheaper than official Molekule ones.

Molekule is one of the few air-purifier makers to implement digital rights management (DRM) on consumable filters through NFC tags embedded into the filters, requiring proprietary replacements costing $100–$175 each. The company’s updated Terms of Service and warranty policies prohibit altering or reusing NFC authentication data and reserve the right to void the warranty and render devices “inoperable” if unauthorized filters are detected.

Customer frustration around this abuse of DRM technology is evident in Molekule’s 1.4/5 Trustpilot rating; they've also received a number of complaints to the Better Business Bureau about devices ceasing to function after filter replacement, and about the high operating costs of the devices with the yearly cost of official filters coming up to over $300.

}}

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''Want to suggest a featured article? Add it to the [[Template_talk:Main_Page/Featured|discussion page]].''

Template:Main Page/Featured

2025-11-23T11:43:18Z

Atsumari: New featured article

{{Featured|Molekule threatens to remotely shut down their app if purifiers used with third party air filters||

In September 2025, air-purifier manufacturer Molekule emailed customers warning that any device using non-genuine "counterfeit" filters would lose remote operability via the app (one of the main reasons to purchase the device in the first place!). They shut off this access on September 22, enshittifying their product for anyone using third-party filters, which are much cheaper than official Molekule ones.

Molekule is one of the few air-purifier makers to implement digital rights management (DRM) on consumable filters through NFC tags embedded into the filters, requiring proprietary replacements costing $100–$175 each. The company’s updated Terms of Service and warranty policies prohibit altering or reusing NFC authentication data and reserve the right to void the warranty and render devices “inoperable” if unauthorized filters are detected.

Customer frustration around this abuse of DRM technology is evident in Molekule’s 1.4/5 Trustpilot rating; they've also recieved a number of complaints to the Better Business Bureau about devices ceasing to function after filter replacement, and about the high operating costs of the devices with the yearly cost of official filters coming up to over $300.

}}

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''Want to suggest a featured article? Add it to the [[Template_talk:Main_Page/Featured|discussion page]].''

Template:Main Page/Featured

2025-11-15T00:02:28Z

Atsumari: New featured article

{{Featured|Smartwool adds forced arbitration to EULA||

In March 2024, Smartwool, a company that sells socks, quietly opted all customers of their online store into a new TOS that imposed a mandatory forced arbitration clause on all customers. They did this with a mass email, automatically binding account holders unless they completed a burdensome opt-out process.

Under the updated terms, consumers can no longer opt out by email. Instead, Smartwool requires that objections be submitted via USPS Priority Mail or hand delivery, an absurd requirement costing even more than First Class mail. Provisions in the updated terms give the arbitrator authority over scope and enforceability of terms, and require consumers to reimburse Smartwool for arbitration fees if a claim is deemed “frivolous.”

This is a textbook example of [[Post-purchase EULA modification|post-purchase]] EULA modification designed to preempt class-action risk, and unfairly deprive customers of the right to sue.

}}

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''Want to suggest a featured article? Add it to the [[Template_talk:Main_Page/Featured|discussion page]].''

Consumer Rights Wiki talk:Bugs

2025-11-09T07:13:47Z

Atsumari: /* CAPTCHA appears only after pressing Add topic or any other similar main activity button clicked */ Reply

[[Category:CRW]]
<div style="margin: {{#ifeq:{{{navbox|<noinclude>yes</noinclude>}}}|yes|2px}} 0 0.5em; padding: 0.5em; {{{style|border: 1px solid #A0A5AD;}}} {{{backgroundstyle|background-color: var(--background-color-progressive-subtle, #eaf3ff); color: inherit;}}}">
<div style="padding: 0.25em 0; text-align: center; font-size: 120%; border-radius: 3px; font-weight: bold; {{{titlestyle|background-color: var(--background-color-content-added, #aad1ff); color: inherit;}}}">Welcome — Issues of Interest to Developers</div>
When reporting a bug, please include as much detail as possible to help developers reproduce and fix the issue.
'''Please do not report security issues here'''. Email them to '''security@fulu.org''' instead.

*'''Check for duplicates:''' look through existing reports before posting to avoid repeats.
*'''System details:''' include your operating system, browser, and platform (e.g. Windows, macOS, Linux, x86, ARM, Chrome, Edge, Safari, Firefox).
*'''Inputs and outputs:''' describe what you did, what you expected to happen, and what actually happened.
*'''Reproduction steps:''' provide clear, step-by-step instructions so developers can replicate the bug.
*For general discussions not related to bugs, please use the [[Consumer Rights Wiki talk:Moderators' noticeboard|Moderators' noticeboard]] instead.

<div style="padding: 0.25em 0; text-align: center; font-size: 150%; border-radius: 3px; font-weight: bold">[[Special:NewSection/Consumer Rights Wiki talk:Bugs|Report a new bug]]</div>

*You will receive a response from [[User:UntoK]] or [[User:JakeL]], who are contracted to provide professional support for this wiki in a production environment.
</div>
<br />
{{Archives}} 

==Wiki search engine indexing==

There are a couple of posts asking about search engine indexing of this wiki: [[Consumer Rights Wiki talk:Moderators' noticeboard#Should CRW be indexed by search engines?]] and [[Talk:Main Page#Suggestion: Implementing a /robots.txt page]]. '''''[[User:JackFromWisconsin|📎 JackFromWisconsin]]''''' ([[User_talk:JackFromWisconsin|talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/JackFromWisconsin|contribs]]) 02:20, 24 August 2025 (UTC)

:We are currently looking into this and I will update the thread as and when we have a solution or any further news. [[User:JakeL|JakeL]] ([[User talk:JakeL|talk]]) 00:38, 8 September 2025 (UTC)

==Moderator's noticebord and report bug pages innaccessible(ish) in old look==

I know it must not be a very high priority, but i just wanted to let you guys know that if you change appearance of the wiki through the settings, the side bar no longer contains stuff like the moderator's noticeboard and the report bug page [[User:Plankton|Plankton]] ([[User talk:Plankton|talk]]) 02:34, 2 September 2025 (UTC)

:@[[User:Plankton|Plankton]] What skin are you talking about? On [https://consumerrights.wiki/index.php?title=Main_Page&useskin=vector 2010 vector] (the "old look") the sidebar appears just fine. The only skin without a sidebar is MinervaNeue, which is the MediaWiki suggested mobile skin (which I understand has been disabled on this wiki for the time being while the technical team works out bugs). Would appreciate more information on what is happening (are other sidebar items showing?, etc.). '''''[[User:JackFromWisconsin|📎 JackFromWisconsin]]''''' ([[User_talk:JackFromWisconsin|talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/JackFromWisconsin|contribs]]) 03:27, 2 September 2025 (UTC)
:Hi, I would also appreciate clarification on this if possible please, particularly which theme you are referencing. I have tried all the installed themes and have not been able to reproduce the issue outside of the MinervaNeue theme, which, as noted by Jack, is a mobile-specific theme and shouldn’t be used on desktop. [[User:JakeL|JakeL]] ([[User talk:JakeL|talk]]) 00:37, 8 September 2025 (UTC)
::Hey there @[[User:JackFromWisconsin|JackFromWisconsin]] @[[User:JakeL|JakeL]] I apologize for the late response I havent been able to be active on this wiki as of late. The skin is MinervaNeue. When I switch to it, some tabs such as the "Report a bug" and "Moderators' noticeboard" are not present in the sidebar (which is toggleable on that theme).
::I will add that i am on a 3:2 monitor, firefox, Linux mint, no idea if that affects anything, but the more info you have the better [[User:Plankton|Plankton]] ([[User talk:Plankton|talk]]) 20:32, 17 September 2025 (UTC)
:::Hi, thanks for your reply. Please don’t use MinervaNeue, it’s a mobile-only theme and isn’t intended for desktop use. It’s also not currently in use on mobile, as it doesn’t work correctly there either. That’s why you’re seeing missing tabs and sidebar items. [[User:JakeL|JakeL]] ([[User talk:JakeL|talk]]) 20:57, 17 September 2025 (UTC)

==Main Page 404==

I am getting a 404 on the site. Turns out I was able to get to the main page if I manually remove the "/Main_Page" from the URL bar, but that seems wrong. [[User:Chuck|Chuck]] ([[User talk:Chuck|talk]]) 18:30, 22 September 2025 (UTC)

:Thanks for pointing that out! This happened during our migration to new infrastructure, before the redirects were fully in place. It’s all fixed now. [[User:JakeL|JakeL]] ([[User talk:JakeL|talk]]) 23:46, 28 September 2025 (UTC)

==How do you edit beginning of an article with StubNotice?==

I was trying to edit the beginning of the article on [[Medical ventilator]] (to add a see also link to the medical equipment article).

The article has a StubNotice template at the beginning (on the same line as the beginning of the first paragraph).

When I try to save changes after making ANY change to the text on the same line as the stub notice template, it will not save (it gives me a message telling me about the procedure for requesting stubnotice removal). I am not trying to move or remove the stub notice, I didn't touch that. Even if all I try to do is put a newline or space after the template, or change words on the first line, it won't let me. This happens whether I use the visual editor or the source editor. I am using firefox running on linux.

I can save changes later on in that article, and I have edited other articles marked as stubs without issue.

The stubnotice documentation and talk page do not seem to document this behaviour, or tell me what to do. If this is desired behaviour, then the template should explain how to handle it.

Thank you. [[User:Drakeula|Drakeula]] ([[User talk:Drakeula|talk]]) 21:31, 24 September 2025 (UTC)

:Not a mod, but I think I can respond to this. You can’t and this is pretty much desired behaviour. The [[Special:AbuseFilter|Abuse filter]] is the reason for it. It does attack more than just that area too as it thinks you’re changing the notice. [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|<i><b>AnotherConsumerRightsPerson</b></i>]] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 07:40, 28 September 2025 (UTC)
::I don't understand why this behavior would be desired. To me it seems like a bug, where the abuse filter is protecting more than it should.
::Regardless, how can we improve the lead paragraph when we can not change it?
::*Are we supposed to duplicate the immutable first paragraph, putting any revisions/improvements in a secondary copy of the first paragraph? Is there a standard template or way to document what is going on so it doesn't confuse readers when they see two first paragraphs?
::*Do we need to propose edits to the first paragraph in some form on the talk page, then request an administrator to come and actually make the change? (If so, how/where do we make the request?)
::*Are we expected to just ignore problems in the first paragraph, and revise the rest of it until the stub can be removed?
::Thanks. [[User:Drakeula|Drakeula]] ([[User talk:Drakeula|talk]]) 01:37, 1 October 2025 (UTC)
::I wonder if this edit, where an administrator used the visual editor to delete a deletion tag after the stubnotice might be part of the problem. Prior to that edit, the stubnotice was on its own line. After that edit, the stubnotice is on the same line as the first paragraph.
::https://consumerrights.wiki/index.php?title=Shortage_of_medical_ventilators_during_the_COVID_pandemic&diff=prev&oldid=25186
::If the abuse filter intentionally protects everything on the stubnotice line, then the problem may be in the visual editor, which should ensure that it preserves the newline at the end of a protected line. (At the very least, it should warn an administrator when they are suddenly protecting a bunch of text that wasn't protected before.) [[User:Drakeula|Drakeula]] ([[User talk:Drakeula|talk]]) 02:06, 1 October 2025 (UTC)
:::I personally don’t like the current ‘stub notice can only be removed by mods’ anyway, and there are loads of article maintenance templates which '''don’t have this for some reason'''. Proposing edits in talk page is actually done on Wikipedia in the form of edit requests, where a mod will look at it there, but the thing is it won’t alert mods here to the request by just posting about it. The point about it protects the entire line seems valid to me and makes complete sense from my own experience, so I do think that is the most likely scenario. [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|<i><b>AnotherConsumerRightsPerson</b></i>]] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 15:22, 1 October 2025 (UTC)
::::This is by design so that editors do not remove the notice until its been removed by staff for completeness. Once work on an article is completed you can post an appeal in the noticeboard or discord #appeals staff do actively check these so that peer edits can be approved and notices removed. This is both by policy and system design; it is not a bug. If you have thoughts on how we can improve this process feel free to bring it up in the dashboard - [[User:Atsumari|Atsumari]] ([[User talk:Atsumari|talk]]) 15:46, 12 October 2025 (UTC)
:::::If this is desired behavior -- why? What purpose does it serve making it so the ''entire first paragraph'' of an article is ''immutable''?
:::::Note that the issue is the protection of the rest of the line, not the protection of the notice itself.
:::::@[[User:Atsumari|Atsumari]] Sorry, I don't know where/what the dashboard is, please give me a link. In the meantime, I will post suggestions for improvement here. Thank you.
:::::How to improve it:
:::::*Fix the code, so that only the stubnotice template is protected, not the rest of the line.
:::::*Fix the code when submitting a change so that it ''always'' adds a newline immediately after a stubnotice (or other protected template) if there isn't one there.
:::::*When a moderator submits a change with anything on the same line as a protected template, (either by adding to it, or by deleting the newline at the end of the line) the software should issue a warning, telling them what this will do to everybody else and asking them to confirm that they really want to do that. (Make the warning simple, clear, blatant, something you have to type a response to so people will read it and not autoclick.)
:::::Temporary workarounds:
:::::Add cautionary notices to the stubnotice template and its documentation.
:::::*The documentation should explain this behavior, tell moderators what the intended use of protecting the rest of the line is, and warn moderators about the problems it can cause.
:::::*If the visual editor is part of the problem (as I suspect it may be, given the edit which caused the problem in this article), then the documentation should warn moderators to be especially careful when using it around stubnotices.
:::::*The template text should explain what is going on, so an editor encountering the problem for the first time knows what is happening, and what to do about it. (How to get help to fix this case.) [[User:Drakeula|Drakeula]] ([[User talk:Drakeula|talk]]) 19:46, 18 October 2025 (UTC)
::::::Just found that the template:incomplete has same problem. [[User:Drakeula|Drakeula]] ([[User talk:Drakeula|talk]]) 05:17, 19 October 2025 (UTC)
::::::That part about the first paragraph being un-editable is not intended but the fact that users cannot edit the stub notice (or other notices) is created so someone cant just arbitrariliy edit their post removing the notices without staff review and formal appeal of the action by the user. As for where the dashboard is [[Consumer Rights Wiki talk:Moderators' noticeboard]] here is a link to it. As for the rest of your concerns I will flag down one of the tech folks or Keith for you to provide a more detailed explaination or look into exactly why everything in a first paragraph is being locked down as if someone adds a stub notices it should be at the top and above all text so there should be a seperation between the article text and the stub notice. This might also just be a policy thing we need to discuss as the stub notice is working as intended but the text after it being locked is not. - [[User:Atsumari|Atsumari]] ([[User talk:Atsumari|talk]]) 08:24, 1 November 2025 (UTC)

==`wiki.rossmanngroup` not redirecting properly==

Example: <nowiki>https://wiki.rossmanngroup.com/wiki/Mozilla</nowiki> redirects to <nowiki>https://consumerrights.wiki/w/Wiki/Mozilla</nowiki> instead of <nowiki>https://consumerrights.wiki/w/Mozilla</nowiki>

See [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-8bTquKjzos here] for more old links [[User:Rudxain|Rudxain]] ([[User talk:Rudxain|talk]]) 05:18, 2 October 2025 (UTC)

:Should now be fixed! Thanks for pointing it out [[User:Keith|Keith]] ([[User talk:Keith|talk]]) 15:11, 2 October 2025 (UTC)

==Turkcell Superonline article issue==

On the [[Turkcell Superonline]] article, I got a ‘new topic’ button in the main (not talk) namespace. [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|<i><b>AnotherConsumerRightsPerson</b></i>]] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 19:54, 19 October 2025 (UTC)

==Missing Icons for Notices section==

<img src="/extensions/Echo/modules/icons/notice.svg" role="presentation" alt=" "> returns nothing, so in Notices tab each notice greats you with broken image icon. Successfully reproduced in chrome and firefox in Linux (Debian 12 with KDE), chrome, firefix, and safari, in MacOS 26 on ARM-based Mac [[User:Banana|Banana]] ([[User talk:Banana|talk]]) 01:23, 8 November 2025 (UTC)

==Categories with 1 article should redirect to that article==

More UX guidlines issue, than bug, but if category includes exactly 1 article, it will save user few seconds of life if that category click redirects to that article. In example, Uber Technologies have 1 article called Uber, and for regular user who is not a contributor it is annoying to click on it after opening category. [[User:Banana|Banana]] ([[User talk:Banana|talk]]) 01:27, 8 November 2025 (UTC)

==Blue on slightly different blue on main page header is awful for accessibility.==

<nowiki><div class="header-box"> has #5d68bb background color and links have #88a3e8 color. It is 2.02:1 contrast ration, which is against WCAG 2.0 4.5:1 contrast ratio requirement for accessibility.</nowiki> [[User:Banana|Banana]] ([[User talk:Banana|talk]]) 01:33, 8 November 2025 (UTC)

==CAPTCHA appears only after pressing Add topic or any other similar main activity button clicked==

More of a suggestion, but it would be much better if CAPTCHA appeared if user made changes in all required fields/field. Less clicks to action - better UI, more engaged regular users. [[User:Banana|Banana]] ([[User talk:Banana|talk]]) 01:35, 8 November 2025 (UTC)

:What do you mean could you provide a more detailed explanation? That way the development team can actually look at this and see what’s possible. - [[User:Atsumari|Atsumari]] ([[User talk:Atsumari|talk]]) 07:13, 9 November 2025 (UTC)

Template:Main Page/Featured

2025-11-01T22:09:02Z

Atsumari: New weekly featured article

{{Featured|Samsung ads in refrigerators||
Samsung has drawn consumer backlash after rolling out advertisements on its premium Family Hub smart refrigerators through a mandatory software update. These refrigerators, priced from $1,699 to $4,999, now display ads on idle screens in Weather, Color, and Daily Board themes unless users switch to select art-only modes; even then, those are not guaranteed to remain ad-free. The change contradicts Samsung’s April 2025 public statement claiming it had “no plans” to put ads on appliance screens.

Samsung initially confirmed the move as part of a “pilot program” and offered no permanent opt-out. Since then, they have added an option to disable all advertisements, though this also disables the widgets containing the advertisements. Consumers who attempt to block ads via Pi-hole, DNS filtering, or firewall rules risk disabling other core functions such as internal cameras, remote access, weather updates, and SmartThings integration, effectively tying basic functionality to forced opt-in to marketing content. Social media users are calling it a “premium appliance turning into a billboard.” Samsung is currently the only major appliance maker injecting ads into refrigerator displays, setting a worrying precedent for post-purchase monetization in home appliances and contributing to the modern “adpocalypse” that consumers now live in.
}}

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''Want to suggest a featured article? Add it to the [[Template_talk:Main_Page/Featured|discussion page]].''

Consumer Rights Wiki talk:Bugs

2025-11-01T08:24:08Z

Atsumari: /* How do you edit beginning of an article with StubNotice? */ Reply

Consumer Rights Wiki:Staff

2025-11-01T08:08:30Z

Atsumari: /* Wiki Moderators */ Removed moderators who left the team

=Consumer Rights Wiki Staff=

Welcome to the official staff listing for the Consumer Rights Wiki (CRW). This page outlines the people behind the scenes who keep our project running and our content trustworthy.

==Executive Team==
''Project leadership and administrative access across all platforms.''

*'''Rossmann ([[User:Louis|Wiki]])'''
*'''Keith ([[User:Keith|Wiki]])'''

==Contractors==
''Paid staff handling backend, tech, and outreach.''

*'''Unto''' ([[User:UntoK|'''Wiki''']]) – Tech Infrastructure
*'''Jake''' ([[User:JakeL|'''Wiki''']]) – Tech Infrastructure
*'''MountainScreamer''' – Administrative Support
*'''ssrish''' – Public Relations
*'''Atsumari''' ([[User:Atsumari|'''Wiki''']]) ([https://discord.com/users/177159079783956492 Discord]) – Social Media management

==Global Administrators==
''Admins with full access to all CRW platforms.''

*'''Dog ([[User:Carrehec|Wiki]])'''
*'''Christoph ([[User:Christoph Howard|Wiki]])'''
*'''Frank ([[User:Francis|Wiki]])'''

==Wiki Administrators==
''Oversee wiki-specific backend and configuration issues.''

*'''Mingyee ([[User:Mingyee|Wiki]])'''

==Global Moderators==
''Moderation and support across all CRW platforms.''

*'''Atsumari''' ([[User:Atsumari|'''Wiki''']]) ([https://discord.com/users/177159079783956492 Discord])

==Discord Moderators==
''Moderate discussions and maintain a safe environment on Discord.''

*'''Stadtionalist'''

==Wiki Moderators==
''Ensure content quality, neutrality, and editorial standards on the wiki.''

*'''Travis ([[User:Travis|Wiki]])'''
*'''JamesTDG ([[User:JamesTDG|Wiki]])'''
*'''MrPollo ([[User:Mr Pollo|Wiki]])'''
*'''Fenriris ([[User:Fen|Wiki]])'''
*'''JackFromWisconsin ([[User:JackFromWisconsin|Wiki]])'''
*'''NK ([[User:Beanie_Bo|Wiki]])'''
*'''Theroy ([[User:Illerfish2|Wiki]])'''
*'''AnotherConsumerRightsPerson ([[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|Wiki]])'''

==Role Definitions==

;Executives
:Project leadership team. Manage all services and hold full administrative access. Often operate behind the scenes on Discord and the wiki.

;Contractors
:Paid technical, administrative, and PR staff who assist with project operations.

;Global Admins
:Admins with oversight over all CRW services, responsible for technical and policy decisions affecting the entire platform.

;Wiki Admins
:Handle wiki-specific configuration, permissions, and backend issues.

;Global Moderators
:Support staff who help maintain order and user engagement across all platforms.

;Discord Moderators
:Moderate community conversations and enforce server rules.

;Wiki Moderators
:Focus on article content, dispute resolution, and wiki policy enforcement with privileges relating to user management, page locking, and stub improvement.

----

''Need help or want to get involved? Visit [[Consumer_Rights_Wiki:Moderator_applications]] to apply to join our moderation team or join our community via the Discord link on the sidebar to contribute to the discussion. Remember that you don’t need to become staff to create an article. Use the page to the left called “create a page“ to learn more about creating a page about your topic.''

[[Category:CRW]]

Consumer Rights Wiki:Staff

2025-11-01T08:04:59Z

Atsumari: /* Wiki Moderators */ Added new moderator

=Consumer Rights Wiki Staff=

Welcome to the official staff listing for the Consumer Rights Wiki (CRW). This page outlines the people behind the scenes who keep our project running and our content trustworthy.

==Executive Team==
''Project leadership and administrative access across all platforms.''

*'''Rossmann ([[User:Louis|Wiki]])'''
*'''Keith ([[User:Keith|Wiki]])'''

==Contractors==
''Paid staff handling backend, tech, and outreach.''

*'''Unto''' ([[User:UntoK|'''Wiki''']]) – Tech Infrastructure
*'''Jake''' ([[User:JakeL|'''Wiki''']]) – Tech Infrastructure
*'''MountainScreamer''' – Administrative Support
*'''ssrish''' – Public Relations
*'''Atsumari''' ([[User:Atsumari|'''Wiki''']]) ([https://discord.com/users/177159079783956492 Discord]) – Social Media management

==Global Administrators==
''Admins with full access to all CRW platforms.''

*'''Dog ([[User:Carrehec|Wiki]])'''
*'''Christoph ([[User:Christoph Howard|Wiki]])'''
*'''Frank ([[User:Francis|Wiki]])'''

==Wiki Administrators==
''Oversee wiki-specific backend and configuration issues.''

*'''Mingyee ([[User:Mingyee|Wiki]])'''

==Global Moderators==
''Moderation and support across all CRW platforms.''

*'''Atsumari''' ([[User:Atsumari|'''Wiki''']]) ([https://discord.com/users/177159079783956492 Discord])

==Discord Moderators==
''Moderate discussions and maintain a safe environment on Discord.''

*'''Stadtionalist'''

==Wiki Moderators==
''Ensure content quality, neutrality, and editorial standards on the wiki.''

*'''Waldo ([[User:Waldo|Wiki]])'''
*'''Shingo ([[User:Shingo|Wiki]])'''
*'''Travis ([[User:Travis|Wiki]])'''
*'''JamesTDG ([[User:JamesTDG|Wiki]])'''
*'''MrPollo ([[User:Mr Pollo|Wiki]])'''
*'''Fenriris ([[User:Fen|Wiki]])'''
*'''JackFromWisconsin ([[User:JackFromWisconsin|Wiki]])'''
*'''NK ([[User:Beanie_Bo|Wiki]])'''
*'''Theroy ([[User:Illerfish2|Wiki]])'''
*'''AnotherConsumerRightsPerson ([[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|Wiki]])'''

==Role Definitions==

;Executives
:Project leadership team. Manage all services and hold full administrative access. Often operate behind the scenes on Discord and the wiki.

;Contractors
:Paid technical, administrative, and PR staff who assist with project operations.

;Global Admins
:Admins with oversight over all CRW services, responsible for technical and policy decisions affecting the entire platform.

;Wiki Admins
:Handle wiki-specific configuration, permissions, and backend issues.

;Global Moderators
:Support staff who help maintain order and user engagement across all platforms.

;Discord Moderators
:Moderate community conversations and enforce server rules.

;Wiki Moderators
:Focus on article content, dispute resolution, and wiki policy enforcement with privileges relating to user management, page locking, and stub improvement.

----

''Need help or want to get involved? Visit [[Consumer_Rights_Wiki:Moderator_applications]] to apply to join our moderation team or join our community via the Discord link on the sidebar to contribute to the discussion. Remember that you don’t need to become staff to create an article. Use the page to the left called “create a page“ to learn more about creating a page about your topic.''

[[Category:CRW]]

Consumer Rights Wiki talk:Moderators' noticeboard

2025-11-01T07:55:38Z

Atsumari: /* note for someone who can modify the localsettings.php file to jump at */ Reply

<div style="margin: {{#ifeq:{{{navbox|<noinclude>yes</noinclude>}}}|yes|2px}} 0 0.5em; padding: 0.5em; {{{style|border: 1px solid #A0A5AD;}}} {{{backgroundstyle|background-color: var(--background-color-progressive-subtle, #eaf3ff); color: inherit;}}}">
<div style="padding: 0.25em 0; text-align: center; font-size: 120%; border-radius: 3px; font-weight: bold; {{{titlestyle|background-color: var(--background-color-content-added, #aad1ff); color: inherit;}}}">Welcome — post issues of interest to Moderators</div>
*Post '''appeals''' to article notice templates (e.g. Incomplete, Stub, etc.)
*Post requests for '''moderator action''' here (e.g. blocks)
*Just need a mod? Post here or ping a mod with a question.
*Post any information or news relevant to the moderation team here.
*To request an article to be created, do not post here, try [[Article suggestions]] instead.
*Do not report technical issues here, please use the [[Consumer_Rights_Wiki_talk:Bugs|Bugs noticeboard]] instead.

<div style="padding: 0.25em 0; text-align: center; font-size: 150%; border-radius: 3px; font-weight: bold">[[Special:NewSection/Consumer Rights Wiki talk:Moderators' noticeboard|Start a new section]]</div>
</div>
<br />
{{Archives}} 
==Open tasks==

*[[:Category:Articles with deletion requests]]
*[[:Category:Articles with merge requests]]
*[[:Category:Articles marked as irrelevant]]
*[[Special:NewPages]]

==In the verifiability section, aren't government policies, regulations with propagandas/agendas allowed to be cited there?==

I'm just wondering if this can cause concerns for staffs in this wiki, for example [https://www.resecurity.com/blog/article/shinyhunters-attacked-vietnams-financial-system-cic-data-leak like this one] (there's english translation but it's all google translated and for full texts translation it's locked behind paywall, so apologies for that) [[User:Justarandomguy111|Justarandomguy111]] ([[User talk:Justarandomguy111|talk]]) 09:42, 18 October 2025 (UTC)

:Can you rephrase your question? I'm not sure exactly what you're asking or how the link you shared is relevant [[User:Beanie Bo|Beanie Bo]] ([[User talk:Beanie Bo|talk]]) 12:29, 19 October 2025 (UTC)

==please delete all pages created by this user==

[[Special:Contributions/81.221.216.80|this user]] creates chatgpt raw output articles. While i dont doubt the relevance of the information, the method of creation is odd, and frankly, detrimental to this website's reputation. [[User:Plankton|Plankton]] ([[User talk:Plankton|talk]]) 20:56, 18 October 2025 (UTC)

:I’m not going to myself, but can one of the mods post a reminder to not do that? ChatGPT can be decent starting point '''if undetected''' and people keep updating it and it feels less sloppy, but this is out of hand. [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|<i><b>AnotherConsumerRightsPerson</b></i>]] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 05:58, 19 October 2025 (UTC)
::Yeah, those ones are particularly bad. if they don't come back and clean them up by tomorrow I'll probably just delete them, as they're pretty much unusable as starting points [[User:Keith|Keith]] ([[User talk:Keith|talk]]) 09:46, 19 October 2025 (UTC)

==So many pages with stub/incomplete notices==

Hey there, I've been messing around pressing the random article button for a while. I've noticed that about 9/10 articles on this wiki have either a stub notice or a incomplete notice. I understand why : this wiki has limited resources to polish these articles and also wish not to add friction for article creation not to deter potential contributors. However, in my opinion, it kinda ruins the image of the website. It looks unpolished, unfinished and amateur.

Is there some plan to eventually add a little friction to the system, to incentivize polishing and finishing articles. I understand this can be complicated, but right now articles are being created with a title and maybe two or three links and then left there to rot. Dont get me wrong, I am also guilty of this, though i wish i werent, and i wish there was a system preventing this kind of low-effort-good-faith contribution.

thank you for hearing me [[User:Plankton|Plankton]] ([[User talk:Plankton|talk]]) 22:27, 18 October 2025 (UTC)

:Not a mod and this may be completely wrong (especially as I don’t use discord) but I think they just want to make articles for now and later polish them. The thing is that I’m pretty sure this is how Wikipedia developed, with just making articles and later on polishing. [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|<i><b>AnotherConsumerRightsPerson</b></i>]] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 05:56, 19 October 2025 (UTC)
:There will absolutely be a tightening of standards later down the line, but ultimately the reason it looks unfinished is because, at present, it *is* unfinished. There'll be a lot of work needed to get it to the point where the articles have the kind of average quality we'd want them to. At the moment we really can't afford to be picky with contributions, and have to embrace the 'something is better than nothing' mentality. [[User:Keith|Keith]] ([[User talk:Keith|talk]]) 09:45, 19 October 2025 (UTC)

==Can a mod please remove this?==

Can a mod remove the sloppyai tags [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|on my userpage]] and [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson/Sandbox|my sandbox page]]? The abuse filter is making impossible to remove. Just delete the part that says SloppyAI which is in the first paragraph on both. Thanks! [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|<i><b>AnotherConsumerRightsPerson</b></i>]] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 07:01, 19 October 2025 (UTC)

:I don't see a SloppyAI notice [[User:Beanie Bo|Beanie Bo]] ([[User talk:Beanie Bo|talk]]) 12:25, 19 October 2025 (UTC)
::You will see SloppyAI with two curly brackets around it, not the full notice. I forgot to clarify. [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|<i><b>AnotherConsumerRightsPerson</b></i>]] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 12:44, 19 October 2025 (UTC)
:::Do you mean where it says: "Apparently, adding template {{sloppyai}} is a crime." [[User:Beanie Bo|Beanie Bo]] ([[User talk:Beanie Bo|talk]]) 12:53, 19 October 2025 (UTC)
::::Yes, that. [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|<i><b>AnotherConsumerRightsPerson</b></i>]] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 12:58, 19 October 2025 (UTC)
:::::Done <nowiki>{{Smiley}}</nowiki> [[User:Beanie Bo|Beanie Bo]] ([[User talk:Beanie Bo|talk]]) 13:03, 19 October 2025 (UTC)
::::::Well that didn't work [[User:Beanie Bo|Beanie Bo]] ([[User talk:Beanie Bo|talk]]) 13:04, 19 October 2025 (UTC)
:::::::To do it, click the source button and then try. What happened was it put <nowiki> tags around it (which basically make it ignore wikitext) because it detected wiki markup in visualeditor, which it doesn’t allow. Putting this in source: {{Smiley}}. I can’t believe I had to do that just to remove it though! [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|<i><b>AnotherConsumerRightsPerson</b></i>]] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 13:06, 19 October 2025 (UTC)

==deletion request==

i wish the page Category:Trading_card_companies to be deleted.

argument : it is redundant with Category:Playing_card_manufacturers

Both have 1 element : Nintendo, though the latter is embedded within Category:Game_manufacturers and the former not, thus it can be deleted [[User:Plankton|Plankton]] ([[User talk:Plankton|talk]]) 20:39, 19 October 2025 (UTC)

==deletion request==

i wish the page [[:Category:Information_technology_companies]] to be deleted

argument : it serves no purpose. all items should be moved to [[:Category:Technology_companies]]

please it will help tidy things up : an impossible task. [[User:Plankton|Plankton]] ([[User talk:Plankton|talk]]) 20:57, 19 October 2025 (UTC)

:{{Done}} (about to do when first typing this) but it might take a little bit to move everything over. [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|<i><b>AnotherConsumerRightsPerson</b></i>]] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 17:50, 21 October 2025 (UTC)

==deletion request==

I wish the page [[:Category:Canadian_Internet_Providers_-_Circumvent_CRTC_protection_-_Time_based_increases.]]

argument : It is a byproduct of an old spelling mistake. I've cleaned up the mess a bit. this page now needs to be deleted [[User:Plankton|Plankton]] ([[User talk:Plankton|talk]]) 21:10, 19 October 2025 (UTC)

:actually all pages in [[Special:UnusedCategories]] [[User:Plankton|Plankton]] ([[User talk:Plankton|talk]]) 21:16, 19 October 2025 (UTC)
::{{Done}} partially (only removed the specific category you mentioned) but a [[Special:UnusedCategories]] cleanup will be done by me in the near future. [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|<i><b>AnotherConsumerRightsPerson</b></i>]] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 17:47, 21 October 2025 (UTC)
:::Also, you can also use the [[Template:DeletionRequest|Deletionrequest template]] for this as although it might not be done very quickly, it is generally cleaner and easier for admins. [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|<i><b>AnotherConsumerRightsPerson</b></i>]] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 17:52, 21 October 2025 (UTC)
::::will do. I didnt know i was allowed to use it. [[User:Plankton|Plankton]] ([[User talk:Plankton|talk]]) 18:59, 21 October 2025 (UTC)
:::::Yes, anyone can use that to mark an article. It won't delete it, it just adds a notice for a mod to delete it (although it can be a bit slow at times!) [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|<i><b>AnotherConsumerRightsPerson</b></i>]] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 19:22, 21 October 2025 (UTC)

==page categories.==

Hi i'd like some clarification regarding categories.

from what i've noticed, each page has a category with the page name as a name. ex: Apple has a Category:Apple.

Now, does that mean all other "tags" go in Category:Apple or should they go in Apple ? Or both ? (by "tags" i mean "Category:Technology_company" or "Category:Video_game")

Please clarify this as both methods are currently used through this wiki.

Thank you for your time and hard work. I want to help out more but this question needs a definitive answer before [[User:Plankton|Plankton]] ([[User talk:Plankton|talk]]) 21:31, 19 October 2025 (UTC)

:Hello, I’m pretty sure all tags are meant to go in the category:Apple, although some pages may have lots of categories when there’s only a few in the actual category for it (or none if there’s no category). [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|<i><b>AnotherConsumerRightsPerson</b></i>]] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 05:21, 20 October 2025 (UTC)
::I’m also going to link to [[Consumer Rights Wiki:Categorization]] because of how good it is as a resource for learning about categories. [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|<i><b>AnotherConsumerRightsPerson</b></i>]] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 05:27, 20 October 2025 (UTC)
:::thanks. i hadnt found that page. i will give it a good read [[User:Plankton|Plankton]] ([[User talk:Plankton|talk]]) 21:31, 20 October 2025 (UTC)

==I've added the 'nocat' parameter to Citation needed==

Just letting mods know because if you see ANY issues with the citation needed template, then please immediately rollback the edits I have made. [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|<i><b>AnotherConsumerRightsPerson</b></i>]] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 18:15, 20 October 2025 (UTC)

==My submission is fine and the notice is not accurate nor able to discern context of the submission==

The sources are actually threaded conversations. I'm not sure how the bot thinks a link to a threaded forum is a news article.

I worked hard making sure my first submission was encompassing.

Yes the "titles" of the forum posts sourced may not be the same as my wiki title here as those are not my posts and would you rather not put the titles of the forum posts?, i made sure to include a "why it matters" section to clarify certain aspects stated in those threads that pertain to the issue at hand. The topic INSIDE OF THE THREADS on the forum posts were exactly pertinent.

If my submission is eligible for deletion then i'm unsure how anything gets published here. I seriously think the bot that looks over submissions needs refinement if it flags my submission like that. Also, realistically a submission page with form fields is the way to go for this. Normal people are not wiki site gurus and template perfect people. They will never use the site. I understand this is outside the scope of this particular message, but I think there are some people that have a very good grasp on wiki sites, template adherence, shortcuts, that completely confusing to a normal person cite page that gets linked and overall these people are flagging posts that normal people are trying to make. The average person that comes into contact with company issues that this site proclaims to want to address will not be able to abide by the standards of a wiki style submission process if this is the outcome of when they sincerely try to contribute. (Again, it should just be form fields and a submit button.)

Nevertheless, I am posting here as directed by the robot. [[Special:Contributions/66.191.58.153|66.191.58.153]] 09:01, 21 October 2025 (UTC)

:On the off-topic remark (I do not know what your original submission was), I agree that the Visual editor UI could be a bit easier to use.
:Some important "Insert" items like Citations should not be under a "More" menu (Windows 11 right click vibes); it took me about 15 minutes to find a source and add my first proper citation despite being a somewhat tech-savvy person. (Although, I started here making '''edits''' and thus did not see the Citation "tutorial" within the Create an article page, only the
:There could also be a quick link(s) within the editor (like the ? button) to CRW's Wiki policy with helpful description like "Contains rules, writing guidelines and the mission statement to ensure the Wiki remains credible."
:In my opinion, starting to edit wikis really feels like booting up CS 1.6 as a first timer, going on multiplayer servers and getting 20 deaths in a row for not already knowing how to wallbang. This is okay for late night LAN parties, not so motivating when people make their first contribution and get edit summaries that aren't directly constructive in their email.
:Nevertheless I could be wrong on these points. I appreciate discussion and feedback. [[User:Raster|Raster]] ([[User talk:Raster|talk]]) 13:05, 21 October 2025 (UTC)
::There are a lot of quirks with MediaWiki in general (the software is 20 years old at this point), and especially for this new wiki that has a lot of bugs and UI stuff to work out. There's supposed to be a major UI haul within the next few months or so, so hopefully that will address some of these issues you mentioned.
::Ctrl+Shift+K is a keyboard shortcut for adding citations. [[User:Beanie Bo|Beanie Bo]] ([[User talk:Beanie Bo|talk]]) 16:56, 21 October 2025 (UTC)
:Hi. Which article specifically are you referring to? [[User:Beanie Bo|Beanie Bo]] ([[User talk:Beanie Bo|talk]]) 16:53, 21 October 2025 (UTC)

==Spam articles==

I've checked [https://consumerrights.wiki/index.php?title=Special:AbuseLog&wpSearchFilter=13 Filter 13's log] and there seems to be a consistent stream of spam articles shown there. Should we block the users doing this? I assume so, but I want to be sure. [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|<i><b>AnotherConsumerRightsPerson</b></i>]] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 16:34, 22 October 2025 (UTC)

:Normally, we would consider this, but the types of users that end up filling up this log tend to make several accounts at a time, making blocking effectively useless. [[User:JamesTDG|JamesTDG]] ([[User talk:JamesTDG|talk]]) 03:45, 24 October 2025 (UTC)

==Question on wiki scope==

This wiki has a Legislation category, covering existing legislation.

I'd like to write up my ideas for things that could be considered for future legislation (as a matter of fact, I started: [[User:CorpoBlight/Product quality - and manufacturer incentives]]). But after I started, I began to wonder if it was in-scope for this wiki or not. If too far away from the preferred direction of this wiki, any suggestions for a different wiki where it would fit better? To be clear, I am ''not'' a lawyer. [[User:CorpoBlight|CorpoBlight]] ([[User talk:CorpoBlight|talk]]) 20:11, 23 October 2025 (UTC)

:This would be outside of scope for the wiki as personal opinion write ups or personal interpritations of law aren't really within scope. Please let us know if you have any other questions about this. - [[User:Atsumari|Atsumari]] ([[User talk:Atsumari|talk]]) 07:52, 1 November 2025 (UTC)

==Appeal deletion of xbox==

[[Xbox]] was proposed for deletion based on its not having been edited in a long time. I think it should be kept. The Microsoft article has several items that would be appropriate for xbox. I have seen enough commentary on xbox and the direction it is going, etc. that I am sure there are sources out there to make a good article. There are a lot of pages that link to the page, so it is probably important.
Having stubs helps the wiki grow. Gives a place for people to expand. Gives reminders of, oh yeah, that thing. Creating a stub article is a pain, why should somebody have to do it again?
If people propose deletion just because something hasn't been worked on in a while, what do they want? Editors to periodically go around and touch every article they think is worthwhile? [[User:Drakeula|Drakeula]] ([[User talk:Drakeula|talk]]) 00:37, 24 October 2025 (UTC)

:Hi, @[[User:Drakeula|Drakeula]], The Wiki tends to remove articles that have not been worked on in order to improve the perceived quality of the place. If you wish to fill in the article accordingly, I can gladly remove the deletion notice from the article for you. [[User:JamesTDG|JamesTDG]] ([[User talk:JamesTDG|talk]]) 01:17, 24 October 2025 (UTC)
::Where is this policy documented/explained? There are several problems with the policy which I would like to be sure have been discussed, and I am interested in participating in the discussion.
::In this case the article has sat unmodified for at most 2 months. That seems absurdly short for a timeout.
::The policy feels very manipulative, "work on this or the article gets it." Xbox is not my priority, but it will probably be someones. It is a shame to lose what progress is made every time somebody has other things in their life.
::I have a few main interests (AI at the moment), but dabble in lots of other things. I would rather be free to improve things here and there as I feel. The policy plainly penalizes that work style.
::(The Mary Condo follower uses a hammer to put in a screw because the screwdriver did not bring them joy. The eclectic person uses a hammer to put in a screw because they can't find one of their dozens of screwdrivers among all their other tools.)
::In general this policy seems extremely short-sighted for the wiki. Why should I work on this wiki if anything I am working on will be deleted if I get busy for a couple of months, or after I move on to other things? So I will not adopt the xbox article, but I will try to advocate to extend protection for it and all the orphans, and thereby help grow the wiki.
::I have more to say, but will save it until I find what has been said and the right place to say it. Thanks. [[User:Drakeula|Drakeula]] ([[User talk:Drakeula|talk]]) 02:12, 24 October 2025 (UTC)
:::Hi, @[[User:Drakeula|Drakeula]], the Xbox article has been in an excessively unfinished state for more than a month. Policy generally states that we need to remove barely-developed articles after 1 month. Our general expectation is that if a user is going to create an article, that they at least fill in the framework within 1 week of creation, but we give extra leeway.
:::Of course, please remember that just because a page is deleted, it does not mean that it cannot be made again! [[User:JamesTDG|JamesTDG]] ([[User talk:JamesTDG|talk]]) 03:39, 24 October 2025 (UTC)
:::I'd say there is a difference between starting an article, and literally just filling in the page creation form and nothing else. On the Xbox article, even just the amount of text you've added is enough for me to be happy leaving it as a stub instead of deleting it (and as such I have removed the deletion notice). [[User:Keith|Keith]] ([[User talk:Keith|talk]]) 07:53, 24 October 2025 (UTC)
::I agree with both points. While the Create a Page flow suggest a standard for an acceptable article: "if you're not going to be able to get the very basics of a page created today (a basic statement of wht <nowiki>{{sic}}</nowiki> the article's about with a couple of references), it might be better to make a draft in your [[wikipedia:Wikipedia:How_to_use_your_user_space|user space]]." which suggest people disobeying the notice not reading due to the attention spans of today; I have to ask if there are measures that prevent or atleast warn articles being published with (1) no citations or (2) sections with template infoboxes. (I would verify this, but don't want to accidentally create a page as a result. If such a system isn't present yet it's understandable, probably harder than I imagine to implement it.) [[User:Raster|Raster]] ([[User talk:Raster|talk]]) 03:19, 24 October 2025 (UTC)
:::Hi, @[[User:Raster|Raster]], because the wiki is intended to allow users without accounts to create pages, we cannot design a system to remind them to work on their unfinished articles. [[User:JamesTDG|JamesTDG]] ([[User talk:JamesTDG|talk]]) 03:43, 24 October 2025 (UTC)
::::Hi @[[User:JamesTDG|JamesTDG]], I don't mean "remind", I mean "prevent" like how one would disable a submit button in a webpage if some requirements are not met. Apologies for any unclear wording on my side [[User:Raster|Raster]] ([[User talk:Raster|talk]]) 03:51, 24 October 2025 (UTC)
:::::Hi, @[[User:Raster|Raster]], unfortunately this is not a system we can enforce without excessively modifying the codebase of MediaWiki. [[User:JamesTDG|JamesTDG]] ([[User talk:JamesTDG|talk]]) 03:54, 24 October 2025 (UTC)
::::::@[[User:JamesTDG|JamesTDG]], that's understandable. Thank you for the reply. I was going to suggest putting such a warning in the new page info boxes, but not sure where to put in a way people will actually read it. [[User:Raster|Raster]] ([[User talk:Raster|talk]]) 03:57, 24 October 2025 (UTC)
:::::::Yeah, to be a bit more specific, because pages are created through the form, a page will always be first created as an unfinished template. that's why we generally leave a day to allow newly submitted articles to be edited into their 'starting state' before worrying about article notices and so on. [[User:Keith|Keith]] ([[User talk:Keith|talk]]) 07:51, 24 October 2025 (UTC)

==Template "Userspace Draft" copied from wikipedia==

I tried to use the [[Template:Userspace draft|Userspace_draft]] template, only to find that it didn't exist. I started with the source of that template from wikipedia, updating the wording a bit and deleting quite a bit.

I commented out a chunk that caused an error "'''Expression error: Unrecognized punctuation character "[".'''" I couldn't see how the chunk in question could cause that error, so someone with more mediawiki template experience may wish to take a look. [[User:CorpoBlight|CorpoBlight]] ([[User talk:CorpoBlight|talk]]) 05:59, 24 October 2025 (UTC)

==Warning: Prohibited words detected?==

It's telling me this, but it won't tell me what I've said wrong.

Can't save the page as a result. How can I find out what words are wrong so I can remove them. I can't find a list anywhere on the site + the error doesn't really tell me much. Also, the page I'm editing has a deletion request...but it will be fully populated with reference once I can edit and save my copy. Thanks in advance for your help. [[Special:Contributions/84.239.50.131|84.239.50.131]] 07:18, 24 October 2025 (UTC)

:Hello, this is because of the abuse filter, which blocks edits it thinks are harmful. The edit it blocked you from sending seems completely fine and was a false positive, so I'll make the change on your behalf. [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|<i><b>AnotherConsumerRightsPerson</b></i>]] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 07:21, 24 October 2025 (UTC)
::Hi, I'm also here because I ran afoul of this filter. My edit does affect about every line of the Article Suggestions table (it's an attempt at alphabetisation) so I can see it looking Big and Awful to an automatic filter! [[User:Neuropirate|Neuropirate]] ([[User talk:Neuropirate|talk]]) 23:10, 25 October 2025 (UTC)
:::{{Done}} the edit and also confirmed you so you won’t have to deal with the filter that stopped you again. Also nice work putting it in alphabetical order! [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|<i><b>AnotherConsumerRightsPerson</b></i>]] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 06:18, 26 October 2025 (UTC)
:Thank you to @[[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|AnotherConsumerRightsPerson]] for getting the edit, but I just wanted to add that if you create an account, then after a few edits you won't need to worry about the filters or similar. [[User:Keith|Keith]] ([[User talk:Keith|talk]]) 07:48, 24 October 2025 (UTC)
::Thank you to @[[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|AnotherConsumerRightsPerson]] as well.
::And you know @[[User:Keith|Keith]], you make a good point. This was kind of supposed to be a one time thing...but maybe it shouldn't be. I'll go ahead and register. [[Special:Contributions/84.239.50.131|84.239.50.131]] 16:43, 24 October 2025 (UTC)

==How does thanking edits work? Some questions;==

This is the first Wiki I've seen with such a cool and human feature, but I need to know if I'm using it correctly instead of just baffling everyone with how much I click them buttons in the Recent Changes page. So some questions:

#How public is "Publicly send thanks?" Does it appear anywhere else other than the Your notices section?
#Does it keep track of which edits have already been thanked? I see some that I have thanked acknowledge that upon a refresh, but most of the time I see the thank button appear again. In this case, does clicking it spam the person's notifications again? Or is this a browser cache issue?
#Assuming this is some sort of MediaWiki plugin, is it open source?

Personally I love my experience with it thus far, as I don't vibe with the idea of an online scoreboard. Thanks! [[User:Raster|Raster]] ([[User talk:Raster|talk]]) 12:19, 26 October 2025 (UTC)

:1. It is mainly directed straight to the user being thanked, but if you go to [[Special:Log/thanks]], there is a thanks log there.
:2. I think you can spam notifications by thanking different edits, but I don’t think you can thank twice.
:3. It is a MediaWiki plugin, I think that it is after looking at [https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Thanks the page for it]. [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|<i><b>AnotherConsumerRightsPerson</b></i>]] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 14:53, 26 October 2025 (UTC)

==Appeal tone notice - Tesla Cybertruck voids warranty if Powershare feature is used==

I believe [[Tesla Cybertruck voids warranty if Powershare feature is used|the article's]] wording now fits within [[Consumer Rights Wiki:Editorial guidelines#Use of tone|the guidelines]]. If there are still areas that need improvement tone-wise, do mention what they are. Thank you for your time [[User:Raster|Raster]] ([[User talk:Raster|talk]]) 08:51, 28 October 2025 (UTC)

:Done! Thanks for improving the article! [[User:Beanie Bo|Beanie Bo]] ([[User talk:Beanie Bo|talk]]) 13:57, 28 October 2025 (UTC)

==Appeal tone notice-Electronic Arts==

I believe that the [[Electronic arts|article]] fits under the [[Consumer Rights Wiki:Editorial guidelines#Use of tone|guidelines]]. If it does, please mention what they are. [[User:Beef|Beef]] ([[User talk:Beef|talk]]) 13:44, 28 October 2025 (UTC)

==note for someone who can modify the localsettings.php file to jump at==

Although it has 'bot' flag, NewUserMessage still shows up in recent changes. I did a bit of digging and found out that all you need to fix it is a line in the localsettings.php file. Setting <code>$wgNewUserSuppressRC</code> to <code>true</code> should do the trick.

Also, just found before posting that to substitute the template (something I suggested earlier), putting any text in page <code>[[MediaWiki:Newusermessage-substitute]]‎</code> should do the trick (which will keep the message the same as when it was posted even when the template itself is updated, like doing it manually instead of via a template). [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|<i><b>AnotherConsumerRightsPerson</b></i>]] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 20:21, 29 October 2025 (UTC)

:This would be something that needs to be passed on to our tech folks. I'll let them know this exists - [[User:Atsumari|Atsumari]] ([[User talk:Atsumari|talk]]) 07:55, 1 November 2025 (UTC)

==Possible solution for hiding IPs?==

IPs have been shown for editing since the start of wikis, but it isn’t private for the IP users, and also Wikipedia is changing that now with temporary accounts. They will instead put it behind a random username, of sorts, that looks kinda like this: ~2025-8371-275. This is also viewable by the ‘temporary account IP viewer’ right or if users are CheckUsers (which I’m pretty sure isn't on the Wiki right now). This is also coming VERY soon, in 4 or so days on the English Wikipedia I think, so it can be implemented quickly. [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|<i><b>AnotherConsumerRightsPerson</b></i>]] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 06:40, 1 November 2025 (UTC)

Consumer Rights Wiki talk:Moderators' noticeboard

2025-11-01T07:52:28Z

Atsumari: /* Question on wiki scope */ Reply

<div style="margin: {{#ifeq:{{{navbox|<noinclude>yes</noinclude>}}}|yes|2px}} 0 0.5em; padding: 0.5em; {{{style|border: 1px solid #A0A5AD;}}} {{{backgroundstyle|background-color: var(--background-color-progressive-subtle, #eaf3ff); color: inherit;}}}">
<div style="padding: 0.25em 0; text-align: center; font-size: 120%; border-radius: 3px; font-weight: bold; {{{titlestyle|background-color: var(--background-color-content-added, #aad1ff); color: inherit;}}}">Welcome — post issues of interest to Moderators</div>
*Post '''appeals''' to article notice templates (e.g. Incomplete, Stub, etc.)
*Post requests for '''moderator action''' here (e.g. blocks)
*Just need a mod? Post here or ping a mod with a question.
*Post any information or news relevant to the moderation team here.
*To request an article to be created, do not post here, try [[Article suggestions]] instead.
*Do not report technical issues here, please use the [[Consumer_Rights_Wiki_talk:Bugs|Bugs noticeboard]] instead.

<div style="padding: 0.25em 0; text-align: center; font-size: 150%; border-radius: 3px; font-weight: bold">[[Special:NewSection/Consumer Rights Wiki talk:Moderators' noticeboard|Start a new section]]</div>
</div>
<br />
{{Archives}} 
==Open tasks==

*[[:Category:Articles with deletion requests]]
*[[:Category:Articles with merge requests]]
*[[:Category:Articles marked as irrelevant]]
*[[Special:NewPages]]

==In the verifiability section, aren't government policies, regulations with propagandas/agendas allowed to be cited there?==

I'm just wondering if this can cause concerns for staffs in this wiki, for example [https://www.resecurity.com/blog/article/shinyhunters-attacked-vietnams-financial-system-cic-data-leak like this one] (there's english translation but it's all google translated and for full texts translation it's locked behind paywall, so apologies for that) [[User:Justarandomguy111|Justarandomguy111]] ([[User talk:Justarandomguy111|talk]]) 09:42, 18 October 2025 (UTC)

:Can you rephrase your question? I'm not sure exactly what you're asking or how the link you shared is relevant [[User:Beanie Bo|Beanie Bo]] ([[User talk:Beanie Bo|talk]]) 12:29, 19 October 2025 (UTC)

==please delete all pages created by this user==

[[Special:Contributions/81.221.216.80|this user]] creates chatgpt raw output articles. While i dont doubt the relevance of the information, the method of creation is odd, and frankly, detrimental to this website's reputation. [[User:Plankton|Plankton]] ([[User talk:Plankton|talk]]) 20:56, 18 October 2025 (UTC)

:I’m not going to myself, but can one of the mods post a reminder to not do that? ChatGPT can be decent starting point '''if undetected''' and people keep updating it and it feels less sloppy, but this is out of hand. [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|<i><b>AnotherConsumerRightsPerson</b></i>]] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 05:58, 19 October 2025 (UTC)
::Yeah, those ones are particularly bad. if they don't come back and clean them up by tomorrow I'll probably just delete them, as they're pretty much unusable as starting points [[User:Keith|Keith]] ([[User talk:Keith|talk]]) 09:46, 19 October 2025 (UTC)

==So many pages with stub/incomplete notices==

Hey there, I've been messing around pressing the random article button for a while. I've noticed that about 9/10 articles on this wiki have either a stub notice or a incomplete notice. I understand why : this wiki has limited resources to polish these articles and also wish not to add friction for article creation not to deter potential contributors. However, in my opinion, it kinda ruins the image of the website. It looks unpolished, unfinished and amateur.

Is there some plan to eventually add a little friction to the system, to incentivize polishing and finishing articles. I understand this can be complicated, but right now articles are being created with a title and maybe two or three links and then left there to rot. Dont get me wrong, I am also guilty of this, though i wish i werent, and i wish there was a system preventing this kind of low-effort-good-faith contribution.

thank you for hearing me [[User:Plankton|Plankton]] ([[User talk:Plankton|talk]]) 22:27, 18 October 2025 (UTC)

:Not a mod and this may be completely wrong (especially as I don’t use discord) but I think they just want to make articles for now and later polish them. The thing is that I’m pretty sure this is how Wikipedia developed, with just making articles and later on polishing. [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|<i><b>AnotherConsumerRightsPerson</b></i>]] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 05:56, 19 October 2025 (UTC)
:There will absolutely be a tightening of standards later down the line, but ultimately the reason it looks unfinished is because, at present, it *is* unfinished. There'll be a lot of work needed to get it to the point where the articles have the kind of average quality we'd want them to. At the moment we really can't afford to be picky with contributions, and have to embrace the 'something is better than nothing' mentality. [[User:Keith|Keith]] ([[User talk:Keith|talk]]) 09:45, 19 October 2025 (UTC)

==Can a mod please remove this?==

Can a mod remove the sloppyai tags [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|on my userpage]] and [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson/Sandbox|my sandbox page]]? The abuse filter is making impossible to remove. Just delete the part that says SloppyAI which is in the first paragraph on both. Thanks! [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|<i><b>AnotherConsumerRightsPerson</b></i>]] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 07:01, 19 October 2025 (UTC)

:I don't see a SloppyAI notice [[User:Beanie Bo|Beanie Bo]] ([[User talk:Beanie Bo|talk]]) 12:25, 19 October 2025 (UTC)
::You will see SloppyAI with two curly brackets around it, not the full notice. I forgot to clarify. [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|<i><b>AnotherConsumerRightsPerson</b></i>]] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 12:44, 19 October 2025 (UTC)
:::Do you mean where it says: "Apparently, adding template {{sloppyai}} is a crime." [[User:Beanie Bo|Beanie Bo]] ([[User talk:Beanie Bo|talk]]) 12:53, 19 October 2025 (UTC)
::::Yes, that. [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|<i><b>AnotherConsumerRightsPerson</b></i>]] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 12:58, 19 October 2025 (UTC)
:::::Done <nowiki>{{Smiley}}</nowiki> [[User:Beanie Bo|Beanie Bo]] ([[User talk:Beanie Bo|talk]]) 13:03, 19 October 2025 (UTC)
::::::Well that didn't work [[User:Beanie Bo|Beanie Bo]] ([[User talk:Beanie Bo|talk]]) 13:04, 19 October 2025 (UTC)
:::::::To do it, click the source button and then try. What happened was it put <nowiki> tags around it (which basically make it ignore wikitext) because it detected wiki markup in visualeditor, which it doesn’t allow. Putting this in source: {{Smiley}}. I can’t believe I had to do that just to remove it though! [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|<i><b>AnotherConsumerRightsPerson</b></i>]] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 13:06, 19 October 2025 (UTC)

==deletion request==

i wish the page Category:Trading_card_companies to be deleted.

argument : it is redundant with Category:Playing_card_manufacturers

Both have 1 element : Nintendo, though the latter is embedded within Category:Game_manufacturers and the former not, thus it can be deleted [[User:Plankton|Plankton]] ([[User talk:Plankton|talk]]) 20:39, 19 October 2025 (UTC)

==deletion request==

i wish the page [[:Category:Information_technology_companies]] to be deleted

argument : it serves no purpose. all items should be moved to [[:Category:Technology_companies]]

please it will help tidy things up : an impossible task. [[User:Plankton|Plankton]] ([[User talk:Plankton|talk]]) 20:57, 19 October 2025 (UTC)

:{{Done}} (about to do when first typing this) but it might take a little bit to move everything over. [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|<i><b>AnotherConsumerRightsPerson</b></i>]] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 17:50, 21 October 2025 (UTC)

==deletion request==

I wish the page [[:Category:Canadian_Internet_Providers_-_Circumvent_CRTC_protection_-_Time_based_increases.]]

argument : It is a byproduct of an old spelling mistake. I've cleaned up the mess a bit. this page now needs to be deleted [[User:Plankton|Plankton]] ([[User talk:Plankton|talk]]) 21:10, 19 October 2025 (UTC)

:actually all pages in [[Special:UnusedCategories]] [[User:Plankton|Plankton]] ([[User talk:Plankton|talk]]) 21:16, 19 October 2025 (UTC)
::{{Done}} partially (only removed the specific category you mentioned) but a [[Special:UnusedCategories]] cleanup will be done by me in the near future. [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|<i><b>AnotherConsumerRightsPerson</b></i>]] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 17:47, 21 October 2025 (UTC)
:::Also, you can also use the [[Template:DeletionRequest|Deletionrequest template]] for this as although it might not be done very quickly, it is generally cleaner and easier for admins. [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|<i><b>AnotherConsumerRightsPerson</b></i>]] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 17:52, 21 October 2025 (UTC)
::::will do. I didnt know i was allowed to use it. [[User:Plankton|Plankton]] ([[User talk:Plankton|talk]]) 18:59, 21 October 2025 (UTC)
:::::Yes, anyone can use that to mark an article. It won't delete it, it just adds a notice for a mod to delete it (although it can be a bit slow at times!) [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|<i><b>AnotherConsumerRightsPerson</b></i>]] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 19:22, 21 October 2025 (UTC)

==page categories.==

Hi i'd like some clarification regarding categories.

from what i've noticed, each page has a category with the page name as a name. ex: Apple has a Category:Apple.

Now, does that mean all other "tags" go in Category:Apple or should they go in Apple ? Or both ? (by "tags" i mean "Category:Technology_company" or "Category:Video_game")

Please clarify this as both methods are currently used through this wiki.

Thank you for your time and hard work. I want to help out more but this question needs a definitive answer before [[User:Plankton|Plankton]] ([[User talk:Plankton|talk]]) 21:31, 19 October 2025 (UTC)

:Hello, I’m pretty sure all tags are meant to go in the category:Apple, although some pages may have lots of categories when there’s only a few in the actual category for it (or none if there’s no category). [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|<i><b>AnotherConsumerRightsPerson</b></i>]] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 05:21, 20 October 2025 (UTC)
::I’m also going to link to [[Consumer Rights Wiki:Categorization]] because of how good it is as a resource for learning about categories. [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|<i><b>AnotherConsumerRightsPerson</b></i>]] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 05:27, 20 October 2025 (UTC)
:::thanks. i hadnt found that page. i will give it a good read [[User:Plankton|Plankton]] ([[User talk:Plankton|talk]]) 21:31, 20 October 2025 (UTC)

==I've added the 'nocat' parameter to Citation needed==

Just letting mods know because if you see ANY issues with the citation needed template, then please immediately rollback the edits I have made. [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|<i><b>AnotherConsumerRightsPerson</b></i>]] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 18:15, 20 October 2025 (UTC)

==My submission is fine and the notice is not accurate nor able to discern context of the submission==

The sources are actually threaded conversations. I'm not sure how the bot thinks a link to a threaded forum is a news article.

I worked hard making sure my first submission was encompassing.

Yes the "titles" of the forum posts sourced may not be the same as my wiki title here as those are not my posts and would you rather not put the titles of the forum posts?, i made sure to include a "why it matters" section to clarify certain aspects stated in those threads that pertain to the issue at hand. The topic INSIDE OF THE THREADS on the forum posts were exactly pertinent.

If my submission is eligible for deletion then i'm unsure how anything gets published here. I seriously think the bot that looks over submissions needs refinement if it flags my submission like that. Also, realistically a submission page with form fields is the way to go for this. Normal people are not wiki site gurus and template perfect people. They will never use the site. I understand this is outside the scope of this particular message, but I think there are some people that have a very good grasp on wiki sites, template adherence, shortcuts, that completely confusing to a normal person cite page that gets linked and overall these people are flagging posts that normal people are trying to make. The average person that comes into contact with company issues that this site proclaims to want to address will not be able to abide by the standards of a wiki style submission process if this is the outcome of when they sincerely try to contribute. (Again, it should just be form fields and a submit button.)

Nevertheless, I am posting here as directed by the robot. [[Special:Contributions/66.191.58.153|66.191.58.153]] 09:01, 21 October 2025 (UTC)

:On the off-topic remark (I do not know what your original submission was), I agree that the Visual editor UI could be a bit easier to use.
:Some important "Insert" items like Citations should not be under a "More" menu (Windows 11 right click vibes); it took me about 15 minutes to find a source and add my first proper citation despite being a somewhat tech-savvy person. (Although, I started here making '''edits''' and thus did not see the Citation "tutorial" within the Create an article page, only the
:There could also be a quick link(s) within the editor (like the ? button) to CRW's Wiki policy with helpful description like "Contains rules, writing guidelines and the mission statement to ensure the Wiki remains credible."
:In my opinion, starting to edit wikis really feels like booting up CS 1.6 as a first timer, going on multiplayer servers and getting 20 deaths in a row for not already knowing how to wallbang. This is okay for late night LAN parties, not so motivating when people make their first contribution and get edit summaries that aren't directly constructive in their email.
:Nevertheless I could be wrong on these points. I appreciate discussion and feedback. [[User:Raster|Raster]] ([[User talk:Raster|talk]]) 13:05, 21 October 2025 (UTC)
::There are a lot of quirks with MediaWiki in general (the software is 20 years old at this point), and especially for this new wiki that has a lot of bugs and UI stuff to work out. There's supposed to be a major UI haul within the next few months or so, so hopefully that will address some of these issues you mentioned.
::Ctrl+Shift+K is a keyboard shortcut for adding citations. [[User:Beanie Bo|Beanie Bo]] ([[User talk:Beanie Bo|talk]]) 16:56, 21 October 2025 (UTC)
:Hi. Which article specifically are you referring to? [[User:Beanie Bo|Beanie Bo]] ([[User talk:Beanie Bo|talk]]) 16:53, 21 October 2025 (UTC)

==Spam articles==

I've checked [https://consumerrights.wiki/index.php?title=Special:AbuseLog&wpSearchFilter=13 Filter 13's log] and there seems to be a consistent stream of spam articles shown there. Should we block the users doing this? I assume so, but I want to be sure. [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|<i><b>AnotherConsumerRightsPerson</b></i>]] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 16:34, 22 October 2025 (UTC)

:Normally, we would consider this, but the types of users that end up filling up this log tend to make several accounts at a time, making blocking effectively useless. [[User:JamesTDG|JamesTDG]] ([[User talk:JamesTDG|talk]]) 03:45, 24 October 2025 (UTC)

==Question on wiki scope==

This wiki has a Legislation category, covering existing legislation.

I'd like to write up my ideas for things that could be considered for future legislation (as a matter of fact, I started: [[User:CorpoBlight/Product quality - and manufacturer incentives]]). But after I started, I began to wonder if it was in-scope for this wiki or not. If too far away from the preferred direction of this wiki, any suggestions for a different wiki where it would fit better? To be clear, I am ''not'' a lawyer. [[User:CorpoBlight|CorpoBlight]] ([[User talk:CorpoBlight|talk]]) 20:11, 23 October 2025 (UTC)

:This would be outside of scope for the wiki as personal opinion write ups or personal interpritations of law aren't really within scope. Please let us know if you have any other questions about this. - [[User:Atsumari|Atsumari]] ([[User talk:Atsumari|talk]]) 07:52, 1 November 2025 (UTC)

==Appeal deletion of xbox==

[[Xbox]] was proposed for deletion based on its not having been edited in a long time. I think it should be kept. The Microsoft article has several items that would be appropriate for xbox. I have seen enough commentary on xbox and the direction it is going, etc. that I am sure there are sources out there to make a good article. There are a lot of pages that link to the page, so it is probably important.
Having stubs helps the wiki grow. Gives a place for people to expand. Gives reminders of, oh yeah, that thing. Creating a stub article is a pain, why should somebody have to do it again?
If people propose deletion just because something hasn't been worked on in a while, what do they want? Editors to periodically go around and touch every article they think is worthwhile? [[User:Drakeula|Drakeula]] ([[User talk:Drakeula|talk]]) 00:37, 24 October 2025 (UTC)

:Hi, @[[User:Drakeula|Drakeula]], The Wiki tends to remove articles that have not been worked on in order to improve the perceived quality of the place. If you wish to fill in the article accordingly, I can gladly remove the deletion notice from the article for you. [[User:JamesTDG|JamesTDG]] ([[User talk:JamesTDG|talk]]) 01:17, 24 October 2025 (UTC)
::Where is this policy documented/explained? There are several problems with the policy which I would like to be sure have been discussed, and I am interested in participating in the discussion.
::In this case the article has sat unmodified for at most 2 months. That seems absurdly short for a timeout.
::The policy feels very manipulative, "work on this or the article gets it." Xbox is not my priority, but it will probably be someones. It is a shame to lose what progress is made every time somebody has other things in their life.
::I have a few main interests (AI at the moment), but dabble in lots of other things. I would rather be free to improve things here and there as I feel. The policy plainly penalizes that work style.
::(The Mary Condo follower uses a hammer to put in a screw because the screwdriver did not bring them joy. The eclectic person uses a hammer to put in a screw because they can't find one of their dozens of screwdrivers among all their other tools.)
::In general this policy seems extremely short-sighted for the wiki. Why should I work on this wiki if anything I am working on will be deleted if I get busy for a couple of months, or after I move on to other things? So I will not adopt the xbox article, but I will try to advocate to extend protection for it and all the orphans, and thereby help grow the wiki.
::I have more to say, but will save it until I find what has been said and the right place to say it. Thanks. [[User:Drakeula|Drakeula]] ([[User talk:Drakeula|talk]]) 02:12, 24 October 2025 (UTC)
:::Hi, @[[User:Drakeula|Drakeula]], the Xbox article has been in an excessively unfinished state for more than a month. Policy generally states that we need to remove barely-developed articles after 1 month. Our general expectation is that if a user is going to create an article, that they at least fill in the framework within 1 week of creation, but we give extra leeway.
:::Of course, please remember that just because a page is deleted, it does not mean that it cannot be made again! [[User:JamesTDG|JamesTDG]] ([[User talk:JamesTDG|talk]]) 03:39, 24 October 2025 (UTC)
:::I'd say there is a difference between starting an article, and literally just filling in the page creation form and nothing else. On the Xbox article, even just the amount of text you've added is enough for me to be happy leaving it as a stub instead of deleting it (and as such I have removed the deletion notice). [[User:Keith|Keith]] ([[User talk:Keith|talk]]) 07:53, 24 October 2025 (UTC)
::I agree with both points. While the Create a Page flow suggest a standard for an acceptable article: "if you're not going to be able to get the very basics of a page created today (a basic statement of wht <nowiki>{{sic}}</nowiki> the article's about with a couple of references), it might be better to make a draft in your [[wikipedia:Wikipedia:How_to_use_your_user_space|user space]]." which suggest people disobeying the notice not reading due to the attention spans of today; I have to ask if there are measures that prevent or atleast warn articles being published with (1) no citations or (2) sections with template infoboxes. (I would verify this, but don't want to accidentally create a page as a result. If such a system isn't present yet it's understandable, probably harder than I imagine to implement it.) [[User:Raster|Raster]] ([[User talk:Raster|talk]]) 03:19, 24 October 2025 (UTC)
:::Hi, @[[User:Raster|Raster]], because the wiki is intended to allow users without accounts to create pages, we cannot design a system to remind them to work on their unfinished articles. [[User:JamesTDG|JamesTDG]] ([[User talk:JamesTDG|talk]]) 03:43, 24 October 2025 (UTC)
::::Hi @[[User:JamesTDG|JamesTDG]], I don't mean "remind", I mean "prevent" like how one would disable a submit button in a webpage if some requirements are not met. Apologies for any unclear wording on my side [[User:Raster|Raster]] ([[User talk:Raster|talk]]) 03:51, 24 October 2025 (UTC)
:::::Hi, @[[User:Raster|Raster]], unfortunately this is not a system we can enforce without excessively modifying the codebase of MediaWiki. [[User:JamesTDG|JamesTDG]] ([[User talk:JamesTDG|talk]]) 03:54, 24 October 2025 (UTC)
::::::@[[User:JamesTDG|JamesTDG]], that's understandable. Thank you for the reply. I was going to suggest putting such a warning in the new page info boxes, but not sure where to put in a way people will actually read it. [[User:Raster|Raster]] ([[User talk:Raster|talk]]) 03:57, 24 October 2025 (UTC)
:::::::Yeah, to be a bit more specific, because pages are created through the form, a page will always be first created as an unfinished template. that's why we generally leave a day to allow newly submitted articles to be edited into their 'starting state' before worrying about article notices and so on. [[User:Keith|Keith]] ([[User talk:Keith|talk]]) 07:51, 24 October 2025 (UTC)

==Template "Userspace Draft" copied from wikipedia==

I tried to use the [[Template:Userspace draft|Userspace_draft]] template, only to find that it didn't exist. I started with the source of that template from wikipedia, updating the wording a bit and deleting quite a bit.

I commented out a chunk that caused an error "'''Expression error: Unrecognized punctuation character "[".'''" I couldn't see how the chunk in question could cause that error, so someone with more mediawiki template experience may wish to take a look. [[User:CorpoBlight|CorpoBlight]] ([[User talk:CorpoBlight|talk]]) 05:59, 24 October 2025 (UTC)

==Warning: Prohibited words detected?==

It's telling me this, but it won't tell me what I've said wrong.

Can't save the page as a result. How can I find out what words are wrong so I can remove them. I can't find a list anywhere on the site + the error doesn't really tell me much. Also, the page I'm editing has a deletion request...but it will be fully populated with reference once I can edit and save my copy. Thanks in advance for your help. [[Special:Contributions/84.239.50.131|84.239.50.131]] 07:18, 24 October 2025 (UTC)

:Hello, this is because of the abuse filter, which blocks edits it thinks are harmful. The edit it blocked you from sending seems completely fine and was a false positive, so I'll make the change on your behalf. [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|<i><b>AnotherConsumerRightsPerson</b></i>]] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 07:21, 24 October 2025 (UTC)
::Hi, I'm also here because I ran afoul of this filter. My edit does affect about every line of the Article Suggestions table (it's an attempt at alphabetisation) so I can see it looking Big and Awful to an automatic filter! [[User:Neuropirate|Neuropirate]] ([[User talk:Neuropirate|talk]]) 23:10, 25 October 2025 (UTC)
:::{{Done}} the edit and also confirmed you so you won’t have to deal with the filter that stopped you again. Also nice work putting it in alphabetical order! [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|<i><b>AnotherConsumerRightsPerson</b></i>]] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 06:18, 26 October 2025 (UTC)
:Thank you to @[[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|AnotherConsumerRightsPerson]] for getting the edit, but I just wanted to add that if you create an account, then after a few edits you won't need to worry about the filters or similar. [[User:Keith|Keith]] ([[User talk:Keith|talk]]) 07:48, 24 October 2025 (UTC)
::Thank you to @[[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|AnotherConsumerRightsPerson]] as well.
::And you know @[[User:Keith|Keith]], you make a good point. This was kind of supposed to be a one time thing...but maybe it shouldn't be. I'll go ahead and register. [[Special:Contributions/84.239.50.131|84.239.50.131]] 16:43, 24 October 2025 (UTC)

==How does thanking edits work? Some questions;==

This is the first Wiki I've seen with such a cool and human feature, but I need to know if I'm using it correctly instead of just baffling everyone with how much I click them buttons in the Recent Changes page. So some questions:

#How public is "Publicly send thanks?" Does it appear anywhere else other than the Your notices section?
#Does it keep track of which edits have already been thanked? I see some that I have thanked acknowledge that upon a refresh, but most of the time I see the thank button appear again. In this case, does clicking it spam the person's notifications again? Or is this a browser cache issue?
#Assuming this is some sort of MediaWiki plugin, is it open source?

Personally I love my experience with it thus far, as I don't vibe with the idea of an online scoreboard. Thanks! [[User:Raster|Raster]] ([[User talk:Raster|talk]]) 12:19, 26 October 2025 (UTC)

:1. It is mainly directed straight to the user being thanked, but if you go to [[Special:Log/thanks]], there is a thanks log there.
:2. I think you can spam notifications by thanking different edits, but I don’t think you can thank twice.
:3. It is a MediaWiki plugin, I think that it is after looking at [https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Thanks the page for it]. [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|<i><b>AnotherConsumerRightsPerson</b></i>]] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 14:53, 26 October 2025 (UTC)

==Appeal tone notice - Tesla Cybertruck voids warranty if Powershare feature is used==

I believe [[Tesla Cybertruck voids warranty if Powershare feature is used|the article's]] wording now fits within [[Consumer Rights Wiki:Editorial guidelines#Use of tone|the guidelines]]. If there are still areas that need improvement tone-wise, do mention what they are. Thank you for your time [[User:Raster|Raster]] ([[User talk:Raster|talk]]) 08:51, 28 October 2025 (UTC)

:Done! Thanks for improving the article! [[User:Beanie Bo|Beanie Bo]] ([[User talk:Beanie Bo|talk]]) 13:57, 28 October 2025 (UTC)

==Appeal tone notice-Electronic Arts==

I believe that the [[Electronic arts|article]] fits under the [[Consumer Rights Wiki:Editorial guidelines#Use of tone|guidelines]]. If it does, please mention what they are. [[User:Beef|Beef]] ([[User talk:Beef|talk]]) 13:44, 28 October 2025 (UTC)

==note for someone who can modify the localsettings.php file to jump at==

Although it has 'bot' flag, NewUserMessage still shows up in recent changes. I did a bit of digging and found out that all you need to fix it is a line in the localsettings.php file. Setting <code>$wgNewUserSuppressRC</code> to <code>true</code> should do the trick.

Also, just found before posting that to substitute the template (something I suggested earlier), putting any text in page <code>[[MediaWiki:Newusermessage-substitute]]‎</code> should do the trick (which will keep the message the same as when it was posted even when the template itself is updated, like doing it manually instead of via a template). [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|<i><b>AnotherConsumerRightsPerson</b></i>]] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 20:21, 29 October 2025 (UTC)

==Possible solution for hiding IPs?==

IPs have been shown for editing since the start of wikis, but it isn’t private for the IP users, and also Wikipedia is changing that now with temporary accounts. They will instead put it behind a random username, of sorts, that looks kinda like this: ~2025-8371-275. This is also viewable by the ‘temporary account IP viewer’ right or if users are CheckUsers (which I’m pretty sure isn't on the Wiki right now). This is also coming VERY soon, in 4 or so days on the English Wikipedia I think, so it can be implemented quickly. [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|<i><b>AnotherConsumerRightsPerson</b></i>]] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 06:40, 1 November 2025 (UTC)

Template:Main Page/Featured

2025-10-17T16:35:48Z

Atsumari:

{{Featured|Bose kills SoundTouch and speakers lose smart functionality||

In October 2025, Bose announced it would end all cloud support for its SoundTouch product line on February 18, 2026. The shutdown will strip affected devices of streaming services, app control, and multiroom features, which are core components of the system’s design. Consumers have called the move planned obsolescence, noting it effectively bricks products still in working order. Despite backlash and petitions, Bose has refused to open-source the platform, offering only limited trade-in credits instead of allowing consumers to make full use of the device they purchased.}}

----
''Want to suggest a featured article? Add it to the [[Template_talk:Main_Page/Featured|discussion page]].''

Template:Main Page/Featured

2025-10-17T16:29:08Z

Atsumari: New featured article

{{Featured|Bose kills SoundTouch and speakers lose smart functionality||

In October 2025, Bose announced it would end all cloud support for its SoundTouch product line on February 18, 2026. The shutdown will strip affected devices of streaming services, app control, and multiroom features, which are core components of the system’s design. Consumers have called the move planned obsolescence, noting it effectively bricks products still in working order. Despite backlash and petitions, Bose has refused to open-source the platform, offering only limited trade-in credits while citing technical limitations and maintenance costs effectively reinforcing the planned obsolescence mindset.}}

----
''Want to suggest a featured article? Add it to the [[Template_talk:Main_Page/Featured|discussion page]].''

Consumer Rights Wiki talk:Moderators' noticeboard

2025-10-17T16:22:50Z

Atsumari: /* Top contributors page */ Reply

<div style="margin: {{#ifeq:{{{navbox|<noinclude>yes</noinclude>}}}|yes|2px}} 0 0.5em; padding: 0.5em; {{{style|border: 1px solid #A0A5AD;}}} {{{backgroundstyle|background-color: var(--background-color-progressive-subtle, #eaf3ff); color: inherit;}}}">
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*Post '''appeals''' to article notice templates (e.g. Incomplete, Stub, etc.)
*Post requests for '''moderator action''' here (e.g. blocks)
*Just need a mod? Post here or ping a mod with a question.
*Post any information or news relevant to the moderation team here.
*To request an article to be created, do not post here, try [[Article suggestions]] instead.
*Do not report technical issues here, please use the [[Consumer_Rights_Wiki_talk:Bugs|Bugs noticeboard]] instead.

<div style="padding: 0.25em 0; text-align: center; font-size: 150%; border-radius: 3px; font-weight: bold">[[Special:NewSection/Consumer Rights Wiki talk:Moderators' noticeboard|Start a new section]]</div>
</div>
<br />
{{Archives}} 
==Open tasks==

*[[:Category:Articles with deletion requests]]
*[[:Category:Articles with merge requests]]
*[[:Category:Articles marked as irrelevant]]
*[[Special:NewPages]]

==Outdated wiki link==
The following I copypasted from [[Template:ToneWarning]]’s talk page. [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|AnotherConsumerRightsPerson]] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 15:13, 17 September 2025 (UTC)

:Done! [[User:Keith|Keith]] ([[User talk:Keith|talk]]) 11:28, 8 October 2025 (UTC)

Due to the changes made since this template's creation in January 2025, I recommend updating the link used for "editorial guidelines". Clicking on it currently leads to the top of the [[Mission statement]] article since the original section label no longer exists. — [[User:Sojourna|Sojourna]] ([[User talk:Sojourna|talk]]) 01:32, 12 July 2025 (UTC)
:More specifically, it should point to [[Consumer_Rights_Wiki:Editorial_guidelines]] instead of [[Mission statement]]. [[User:NOTAROBOT|NOTAROBOT]] ([[User talk:NOTAROBOT|talk]]) 11:51, 9 August 2025 (UTC)

==Place fightchatcontrol.eu in a prominent place on the homepage.==

I wish to have https://fightchatcontrol.eu/ on the top of consumerrights.wiki. I understand that this is not a corporation thing. But privacy is something many of the people here strongly value and this is an important project for everyones rights. [[User:Dentist5735|Dentist5735]] ([[User talk:Dentist5735|talk]]) 00:03, 18 September 2025 (UTC)

:Not a mod and so won’t implement it myself but there is a ‘consumer tools’ section if you scoll down very far that this would kinda fit in to. [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|AnotherConsumerRightsPerson]] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 05:21, 18 September 2025 (UTC)

==Itron article has been flagged for questionable relevance.==

I believe the [[Itron]] article has been mistakenly flagged for questionable relevance. I have added several Incidents to the page to further show Itron's systemic patterns of consumer privacy violations please see the below:

''Itron's Smart meters allow them to collect, process, and store data without the end users' knowledge. (1980-Present)''

''NYSEG requires customers to switch to Itron Smart meters or face monthly charge (November 2022-Present)''

''CenterPoint Energy requires customers to switch to Itron Smart meters or face one-time and monthly service charges (Unknown-Present)''

''Southern California Edison requires customers to switch to Itron Smart meters or face monthly charge (Unknown-Present)''

Smart meter (and smart grid solutions) usage by utility companies involves a lot of layers but these are what I find to be most concerning:

''Lack of data privacy, utility companies can freely share customer data with third party smart meter companies (such as Itron) without customer knowledge.''

''Lack of freedom to choose whether or not you have a smart meter recording your electricity usage. This data can be used to infer all sorts of things from what kind of appliances you own to when you are home.''

''Itron's Data Processing Agreement is un-viewable (at least for me) and not easy to find either, and end users typically do not know they will have an Itron smart meter until after it is installed by their electric company.''

Itron is not the only smart meter and smart grid solutions game in town but they are big and not end user friendly,.

Thank Mods! [[User:Privacywarrior|Privacywarrior]] ([[User talk:Privacywarrior|talk]]) 19:11, 28 September 2025 (UTC)

==Watch out for this person==

I was sent an e-mail yesterday (Sept 28th) from a person by the name "PawPatroler" who has apparently {{Wplink|User_talk:PawPatroler#Unblock_me,_please!|been harassing other wikis}} with the same appeal message in an attempt to have their Wikipedia account unbanned. Hopefully this just remains a one-off. — [[User:Sojourna|Sojourna]] ([[User talk:Sojourna|talk]]) 02:16, 30 September 2025 (UTC)

:I got the email as well. Didn't know about the Wikipedia thing though. @[[User:Keith|Keith]] might wanna check this out [[User:Beanie Bo|Beanie Bo]] ([[User talk:Beanie Bo|talk]]) 12:12, 30 September 2025 (UTC)

==Appeal deletion of Medical equipment page==

[[Medical equipment]] has some issues relating to manufacturer lockdown and repair which are important (right to repair is right to save lives) and which may be somewhat different from issues in other devices. This page appears to be the natural place to cover these issues.

There was a device page on medical ventilators, but it has been demoted to an incident page.

This deletion request is particularly confusing, because @[[User:Beanie Bo|Beanie Bo]] who proposed deletion, has what looks like some notes for an article covering right to repair of medical devices on their talk page.

Not every "new consumer" issue with medical equipment falls under right to repair. There are also right to own considerations. (Such as having access to and control of my personal information - the readouts from my Cpap/pacemaker/etc. Also privacy issues. Who controls the device. ...) There are medical supplies (e.g. continuous glucose monitor patches or insulin refills, and things like region locking, supplier lockin, etc.) So I would not favor just moving the page to be only medical right to repair.

I am confident that there is more than enough verifiable information and issues to make at least one article.

I think the page should be kept. Having some general pages that link things together is helpful. Especially when a wiki is so skeletal as this. The page can certainly use improvement. I think having the beginnings of a structure encourages growth.

There is, as always, this disincentive to do anything to improve the page when it has a deletion notice. (No sense working on something that going to be destroyed.) [[User:Drakeula|Drakeula]] ([[User talk:Drakeula|talk]]) 02:32, 2 October 2025 (UTC)

:Maybe @[[User:Mr Pollo|Mr Pollo]] can give his take since he's generally the one who finalizes article deletion.
:As for my opinion, the article is simply too vague to be useful. Creating incident articles would be significantly more effective to shed a light on bad consumer practice in the medical industry, instead of one article with a ton of empty headlines. The article was created 9 months ago at this point yet only has 2 paragraphs worth of information. I take that to mean there is little interest in working on articles in the medical industry, and it's clear most people would rather discuss tech companies. So "encouraging growth" is not relevant at all in this case.

:The way to give fair weight to the issues in the medical industry is by creating more articles dedicated to the various incidents that have been reported on. A single master sheet makes it seem like CRW only cares about tech issues (of which there are hundreds of relevant articles) and only adds in a few things from other industries lumped into one page that people are unlikely to find in the middle of hundreds of tech articles.

:Incident pages are not "less than" company or product pages. They're simply different types. I don't think it's fair to say the medical ventilators article was "demoted" when the change was simply to portray the issues more accurately. Once I've gone through and edited the article to be more extensive and accurately portray the issue at hand, I hope that your position might change on the matter. And thanks for bringing it up anyway even if we disagree. It is motivating me to get to that article more quickly (as soon as I finish some smaller changes on articles I'm working on currently). [[User:Beanie Bo|Beanie Bo]] ([[User talk:Beanie Bo|talk]]) 14:53, 2 October 2025 (UTC)
::I can see the importance of having a page that includes the medical equipment, though a category system can also achieve this in a better way. There can be a main category (ex: Category:Medical equipment), and subcategories for the machines (ex: Category:MRI, Category:Ventilators) that include a small description of why they are consumer rights problems with alongside the Medical equipment category to link it all together.
::For example, this is what the source code of the Category:Ventilators could look like:
::<br />
::At the beginning of the Covid 19 pandemic, ventilators were suddenly in very high demand. Digital rights management and lack of right to repair made the equipment shortage worse, and probably increased mortality.<br>
::<nowiki>[[Category:Medical equipment]]</nowiki>
::Let me know what you both think of this approach! [[User:Mr Pollo|Mr Pollo]] ([[User talk:Mr Pollo|talk]]) 22:42, 3 October 2025 (UTC)
:::@[[User:Beanie Bo|Beanie Bo]]Sorry if the term demoted offended. It was not intended to. I was thinking in terms of the tree structure for the articles, not in terms of possible emotional impact. Lots of leaf [incident] articles, smaller number of device articles which aggregate/lead to the incidents, but can cover things more broadly, beyond just an incident. With theme articles (or possibly a missing article type, like a navigation articles) above that. So an incident article is less than a product page in the sense of being less general (more specific), not less important or valuable. I always try to be courteous, but sometimes I don't think of possible interpretations. So, my apologies.
:::I added a bit more meat to the article, hoping it will make it clearer what it could become, or inspire links to other relevant articles that exist, or inspire people to cover more medtech. If this article is to be deleted, what is the plan? Where would content like I added to the article better be placed? Is there a better name this theme article could be placed under? (I started a thread to discuss this on the article's talk page.)
:::For example, if this page goes, and the ventilator page just covers the covid emergency, then where can we put information about ventilators beyond the initial Covid surge?
:::I have more response, but want to sleep on it. [[User:Drakeula|Drakeula]] ([[User talk:Drakeula|talk]]) 18:22, 4 October 2025 (UTC)
:::I just realized why I used "demoted." The [[Consumer Rights Wiki:Article types|list of article types]] lists them numerically (product is Tier 2, incident is Tier 3). For Tier 2 it says "This tier of articles may well be the most useful to the casual reader. This is where someone who googles [insert thing here] consumer rights wiki will usually end up." Sure sounds like incident articles are "less than" product articles (as in less useful, less likely to be seen, a lower tier).
:::Just pointing out what seems to me a natural interpretation of the wiki policies. I am not trying to justify or defend my word choice. I still apologize if they caused offense. [[User:Drakeula|Drakeula]] ([[User talk:Drakeula|talk]]) 19:58, 4 October 2025 (UTC)
::::I do wonder whether 'trunk, branch, leaf' might be a better way of putting it than the tiers. I wrote the basic article categorisation system in an afternoon many months ago, so it is very much not gospel! It seems to mostly work, but if we do need to make tweaks, it's worth discussing [[User:Keith|Keith]] ([[User talk:Keith|talk]]) 16:58, 7 October 2025 (UTC)
:::::This makes perfect sense. I think it would help organize the wiki a lot, and help new contributors decide which article type is most fitting for what they want to write. [[User:Beanie Bo|Beanie Bo]] ([[User talk:Beanie Bo|talk]]) 17:27, 7 October 2025 (UTC)
:::@[[User:Mr Pollo|Mr Pollo]]@[[User:Beanie Bo|Beanie Bo]]
:::Just to be clear, when I first saw the medical equipment article, I figured it was a theme article. It would have been clearer had I said that in my initial appeal. I recognize that theme articles are to be used sparingly, but I think medical equipment has enough unique features and is important enough to consumers that a theme article is warranted.
:::I still think the [[medical equipment]] theme article is a better solution than categories.
:::The medical equipment theme article:
:::*Is easier for the reader (easier to make “grandmother” appropriate). (They don't have to learn how categories work.)
:::*Is easier for other articles to link to (don’t have to warn the reader that doing a context switch to categories).
:::*Allows compact coverage of additional issues and types of devices for which articles have not been created. (Easier to read and maintain than creating a bunch of stubs. Having mention of a device or issue may prompt people to create more detail.)
:::*Allows mention of considerations which would otherwise be replicated into articles in the area. (e.g., One could come up with boilerplate about FDA or insurance considerations, and copy it to the sub-articles – but maintenance headache.)
:::*Gives place to cover things which don’t fit neatly into the existing structure (e.g., artificial pancreas) (I am not advocating coverage there long term, but it is way we can capture those things that don’t fit neatly, rather than just losing them. As we find things that don’t quite fit, the structure can evolve. )
:::*The talk page gives a possible place for questions/discussion of articles in this area. (Or, if there is a better place for such discussion, the talk page could give a pointer to it.)
:::*A theme article fits in the official article types, whereas creating a new type of hybrid category/theme article feels like beyond the scope of what should be decided here?
:::Thanks. [[User:Drakeula|Drakeula]] ([[User talk:Drakeula|talk]]) 17:54, 6 October 2025 (UTC)
::::I generally think you're right to want to keep it here, and I think you've laid out good reasons for keeping it in mainspace rather than having it solely be a category page (a medical equipment category is also appropriate, but having a real page covering this sort of thing makes sense). We ideally want users to be able to navigate around the wiki through the use of links, and a general article on medical equipment, or conusmer protection in a medical context, is sensible. The article could certainly do with a coat of paint (maybe the examples should be tabulated?)
::::I'd probably say just keep it on the Wiki with a stub notice for now. Any thoughts @[[User:Mr Pollo|Mr Pollo]]@[[User:Beanie Bo|Beanie Bo]]?
::::It would probably at some point sit under an overarching 'medical consumer rights issues' article or something of the sort, and then this article serves to discuss equipment issues as opposed to ones related to payments, insurance, sales, etc. [[User:Keith|Keith]] ([[User talk:Keith|talk]]) 16:52, 7 October 2025 (UTC)
:::::@[[User:Keith|Keith]] I think you and Drakeula made great arguments for why it should stay. Though I guess I should say my personal philosophy, which is basically to assume that others by default ''won't'' work to improve existing articles, especially niche ones. Most users prefer high traffic articles pertaining to large companies or major controversies. My personal opinion is that leaving a lot of low quality stubs ruins the integrity of the wiki, ''especially'' for articles that are 3+ months old. When I add relevance/deletion notices, it's on these articles that:
:::::- have been stubs for 3+ months
:::::- have not had any notable edits/improvements in 1-3 months
:::::- are niche articles that have extremely low probability of further improvements, etc.
:::::As a moderator, I'm ''attempting'' to fill that gap, which is why I sort of informally taken control over articles I feel like I may be able to do justice in fixing (e.g. covid ventilators). When low quality articles are left on the wiki, it's basically the moderators' responsibility to fix them. And since we don't have enough hands or time to fix the hundreds of articles out there in need of substantial work, I tend to err on the side of deletion, simply for maintaining the wiki's integrity.
:::::So I understand completely why you err on the side of keeping articles unless they clearly do not belong. But I do genuinely think it could work against us if we have 900 articles yet half of them are stubs or need substantial improvements. And it's pretty clear that they will continue to stay stubs for months to come, leaving that stub-to-complete article ratio to ever increase.
:::::Just food for thought, I guess. - [[User:Beanie Bo|Beanie Bo]] ([[User talk:Beanie Bo|talk]]) 17:24, 7 October 2025 (UTC)
::::::I suppose my hope on that front has been that a good pool of 'stuff that needs work' will encourage people to work on it. Because we want the wiki to end up being reasonably comprehensive, I think that having a stub article basically just saying 'this should be an article, and here is at least enough stuff to justify it being more than just a row on article suggestions' has value in 'holding place' on the wiki and allowing other articles to link to it, and giving a bit of visibility that it needs to be properly written.
::::::Realistically, it will be quite some time before we are at the point where we'll expect the wiki to be useful to a reader. At that point, when it comes (maybe around ~2000 articles? next year once the UI overhaul is done?) it might made more sense to have a 'step-up' in how strict we are about zombie articles. So for now I'd say that policing the deletion zombie articles should probably be mostly restricted to articles that make you go 'this could just be an entry in the article suggestions page' (although if an article feels irrelevant or is just complete trash, that's a different matter). [[User:Keith|Keith]] ([[User talk:Keith|talk]]) 20:36, 7 October 2025 (UTC)
:::::::That makes total sense, especially considering how young the wiki still is. I see where you're coming from and I can adopt that philosophy lol. Thanks for explaining it [[User:Beanie Bo|Beanie Bo]] ([[User talk:Beanie Bo|talk]]) 21:22, 7 October 2025 (UTC)
::::::@[[User:Beanie Bo|Beanie Bo]] I agree with Keith on thinking that stubs help growth.
::::::I only found out about this wiki recently (month or so ago).
::::::I notice several things that makes the wiki unwelcoming to new editors. (This is not about any one editor, most of these are from multiple interactions with different people.)
::::::#Deletion discussions saying something hasn't gotten edits in xx months. As a newbie, how can I counter that? (Also, this encourages long term editors to make periodic "keep alive" edits, which seem like a waste of time.)
::::::#The constant fear of the wiki getting too big/successful. (Expressed by editors in multiple ways in discussion. This one is nuanced and complex. More on this elsewhere.)
::::::#I haven't had this happen, but I expect for long time editors, having something one worked on deleted just because life happens and you hadn't got back to it in a while would be discouraging.
::::::#Salting the ground. When one goes to create an article, all you see is that something was there. Don't see what it was, or why it was deleted. If I find that an article on this was deleted, I don't bother to create an article (even if I am sure it could be good and relevant.) So if you delete things just because they are old, one has increased the friction against creation. This is part of why I tend to imagine any article is the best, most relevant version of that article it could be. If that article should stay, then I would vote for keep. If it still doesn't pass muster, then I would say out it goes.
::::::#help being gated behind Discord's user agreement. (See [[Talk:Main_Page]])
::::::Might also be a matter of working style? Some people seem to have lots of projects working on at once (office so full of papers you need a shovel to find a chair). Others may do one thing deeply at one time (clean desk with only 1 file open at a time). Both extremes can work, just how to support both - allow the cluttered desk folks to have the "richness of opportunities/mess" and the clean desk folks to have their "streamlined/sterile & lifeless" workspace. (I hope I got that even handed. No offense meant to any of the styles.)
::::::I have certainly added to articles which were stubs, some of who's relevance had been questioned. I find something that is not my main focus, but in passing it inspires hey, I can add this example, or connect that up. Some of them have inspired me to think of other things worth covering here (articles to propose, etc.). (i.e., having a wide variety of shoots really does help growth)
::::::Sorry this got so long. [[User:Drakeula|Drakeula]] ([[User talk:Drakeula|talk]]) 00:21, 12 October 2025 (UTC)
::::::One other item to the list -- having an article proposed for deletion right after I try to make it more discoverable. One of the things I do is try to see what is here, and in the process connect related things. One of reasons an article might be undeveloped is it was hard to find. If going to propose based on article age, maybe wait a bit after new links put in. [[User:Drakeula|Drakeula]] ([[User talk:Drakeula|talk]]) 00:39, 12 October 2025 (UTC)
:::::I’m fine with either approach, though for now adding a Stub template is good. I agree we should be more strict on "zombie articles" once the wiki becomes more fleshed out. [[User:Mr Pollo|Mr Pollo]] ([[User talk:Mr Pollo|talk]]) 20:42, 7 October 2025 (UTC)

==Can someone help me on the mess I made here?==

Hello, I have recently made an article on the [[Biometric Information Privacy Act]] which I have completely messed up! I saw that King Louis made a place in the [[Friend app#See also|see also of the Friend app article]] about the BIPA, so I decided to make one myself, but me not being a US citizen and not fact checking, I based it on [[wikipedia:Biometric Information Privacy Act|this BIPA from Wikipedia]] but somehow combined it with this [https://www.congress.gov/bill/116th-congress/senate-bill/4400/text| bill] (the wikipedia one was an [https://www.ilga.gov/legislation/publicacts/fulltext.asp?Name=095-0994| Illinois] one). So basically what I did was combined two articles into one and only found out when doing refs ~1 day after. Should we [[wikipedia:WP:TNT|blow it up and start over]]? Somehow save this? I need help here. [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|<i><b>AnotherConsumerRightsPerson</b></i>]] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 14:37, 7 October 2025 (UTC)

:The second bill you shared leads to a broken page. I'm gonna go ahead and make the judgment call that you can nuke it. Trying to parse through the information of which bill it belongs to might take more time than simply starting over. Also, I personally operate on the philosophy that "if I don't fix it myself, no one else will" (which isn't ''always'' true, but it's true often enough). And it seems especially true for niche pages like this one. If you want to fix it yourself, just make sure you add Illinois to your searches and make sure the relevant websites is Illinois state and not federal govt. Thanks for the attempts anyway, even if it gets nuked. We always appreciate contributors looking into policies and such, since it's rare that it happens. You're good! [[User:Beanie Bo|Beanie Bo]] ([[User talk:Beanie Bo|talk]]) 15:24, 7 October 2025 (UTC)
::Should've checked the second bill! I'll add a deletionreq now. [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|<i><b>AnotherConsumerRightsPerson</b></i>]] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 16:24, 7 October 2025 (UTC)
:::Oh, I meant erasing the content and perhaps just having a one paragraph explanation and stub! Probably shouldn't have said "nuke." I was referring to that wiki article you linked to: "With articles, this is the '''TNT tipping point''' argument: if the article's content is useless (including all the versions in history) but the title might be useful, then delete the content to help encourage a new article." Maybe I read it wrong, sorry! [[User:Beanie Bo|Beanie Bo]] ([[User talk:Beanie Bo|talk]]) 17:09, 7 October 2025 (UTC)
::::<nowiki>*facepalm*</nowiki> Thanks for removing it, I couldn’t have because abuse filter. Also, the WP:TNT article means to delete the entire thing (done via a deletion discussion, which is in Wikipedia where people vote on whether to keep or delete an article) [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|<i><b>AnotherConsumerRightsPerson</b></i>]] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 17:40, 7 October 2025 (UTC)

==Remove ‘Help About MediaWiki’ from the main menu list==

This literally comes with MediaWiki to help you learn about it while setting up and it is still in the main menu. I don’t see why we need this? [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|<i><b>AnotherConsumerRightsPerson</b></i>]] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 06:09, 8 October 2025 (UTC)

:Good catch; I know its there to help people learn how to edit and do things but after initial set up it does not serve much purpose; maybe we could change it to the editting guide or something becuase there is still usefulness in linking to a mediawiki edit guide or functional tutorial so new users can learn how to edit. [[User:Atsumari|Atsumari]] ([[User talk:Atsumari|talk]]) 15:34, 12 October 2025 (UTC)
:removed! ty for the catch [[User:Keith|Keith]] ([[User talk:Keith|talk]]) 16:12, 12 October 2025 (UTC)

==Top contributors page==

Hello, there’s a [[Top Contributors]] page AND [[Special:ContributionScores]] page. The sidebar currently directs you to the ContributionScores page, so the Top Contributors page is useless. [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|<i><b>AnotherConsumerRightsPerson</b></i>]] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 15:15, 15 October 2025 (UTC)

:Hi, I dont see that link on the sidebar; where do you see this - [[User:Atsumari|Atsumari]] ([[User talk:Atsumari|talk]]) 15:49, 15 October 2025 (UTC)
::Beneath "Random Page", it says "Top Contributors". See: [[MediaWiki:Sidebar]].
::@[[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|AnotherConsumerRightsPerson]] is pointing out the redundancy between the two pages they mentioned. [[User:Beanie Bo|Beanie Bo]] ([[User talk:Beanie Bo|talk]]) 16:28, 15 October 2025 (UTC)
:::Yes, that is what I meant. [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|<i><b>AnotherConsumerRightsPerson</b></i>]] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 18:39, 15 October 2025 (UTC)
::::What theme is being used as this doesnt appear on this theme? http://scrnsht.us/chrome_zz9teMfUJD.png - [[User:Atsumari|Atsumari]] ([[User talk:Atsumari|talk]]) 16:22, 17 October 2025 (UTC)

Consumer Rights Wiki talk:Moderators' noticeboard

2025-10-15T15:49:32Z

Atsumari: /* Top contributors page */ Reply

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{{Archives}} 
==Open tasks==

*[[:Category:Articles with deletion requests]]
*[[:Category:Articles with merge requests]]
*[[:Category:Articles marked as irrelevant]]
*[[Special:NewPages]]

==Outdated wiki link==
The following I copypasted from [[Template:ToneWarning]]’s talk page. [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|AnotherConsumerRightsPerson]] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 15:13, 17 September 2025 (UTC)

:Done! [[User:Keith|Keith]] ([[User talk:Keith|talk]]) 11:28, 8 October 2025 (UTC)

Due to the changes made since this template's creation in January 2025, I recommend updating the link used for "editorial guidelines". Clicking on it currently leads to the top of the [[Mission statement]] article since the original section label no longer exists. — [[User:Sojourna|Sojourna]] ([[User talk:Sojourna|talk]]) 01:32, 12 July 2025 (UTC)
:More specifically, it should point to [[Consumer_Rights_Wiki:Editorial_guidelines]] instead of [[Mission statement]]. [[User:NOTAROBOT|NOTAROBOT]] ([[User talk:NOTAROBOT|talk]]) 11:51, 9 August 2025 (UTC)

==Place fightchatcontrol.eu in a prominent place on the homepage.==

I wish to have https://fightchatcontrol.eu/ on the top of consumerrights.wiki. I understand that this is not a corporation thing. But privacy is something many of the people here strongly value and this is an important project for everyones rights. [[User:Dentist5735|Dentist5735]] ([[User talk:Dentist5735|talk]]) 00:03, 18 September 2025 (UTC)

:Not a mod and so won’t implement it myself but there is a ‘consumer tools’ section if you scoll down very far that this would kinda fit in to. [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|AnotherConsumerRightsPerson]] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 05:21, 18 September 2025 (UTC)

==Itron article has been flagged for questionable relevance.==

I believe the [[Itron]] article has been mistakenly flagged for questionable relevance. I have added several Incidents to the page to further show Itron's systemic patterns of consumer privacy violations please see the below:

''Itron's Smart meters allow them to collect, process, and store data without the end users' knowledge. (1980-Present)''

''NYSEG requires customers to switch to Itron Smart meters or face monthly charge (November 2022-Present)''

''CenterPoint Energy requires customers to switch to Itron Smart meters or face one-time and monthly service charges (Unknown-Present)''

''Southern California Edison requires customers to switch to Itron Smart meters or face monthly charge (Unknown-Present)''

Smart meter (and smart grid solutions) usage by utility companies involves a lot of layers but these are what I find to be most concerning:

''Lack of data privacy, utility companies can freely share customer data with third party smart meter companies (such as Itron) without customer knowledge.''

''Lack of freedom to choose whether or not you have a smart meter recording your electricity usage. This data can be used to infer all sorts of things from what kind of appliances you own to when you are home.''

''Itron's Data Processing Agreement is un-viewable (at least for me) and not easy to find either, and end users typically do not know they will have an Itron smart meter until after it is installed by their electric company.''

Itron is not the only smart meter and smart grid solutions game in town but they are big and not end user friendly,.

Thank Mods! [[User:Privacywarrior|Privacywarrior]] ([[User talk:Privacywarrior|talk]]) 19:11, 28 September 2025 (UTC)

==Watch out for this person==

I was sent an e-mail yesterday (Sept 28th) from a person by the name "PawPatroler" who has apparently {{Wplink|User_talk:PawPatroler#Unblock_me,_please!|been harassing other wikis}} with the same appeal message in an attempt to have their Wikipedia account unbanned. Hopefully this just remains a one-off. — [[User:Sojourna|Sojourna]] ([[User talk:Sojourna|talk]]) 02:16, 30 September 2025 (UTC)

:I got the email as well. Didn't know about the Wikipedia thing though. @[[User:Keith|Keith]] might wanna check this out [[User:Beanie Bo|Beanie Bo]] ([[User talk:Beanie Bo|talk]]) 12:12, 30 September 2025 (UTC)

==Appeal deletion of Medical equipment page==

[[Medical equipment]] has some issues relating to manufacturer lockdown and repair which are important (right to repair is right to save lives) and which may be somewhat different from issues in other devices. This page appears to be the natural place to cover these issues.

There was a device page on medical ventilators, but it has been demoted to an incident page.

This deletion request is particularly confusing, because @[[User:Beanie Bo|Beanie Bo]] who proposed deletion, has what looks like some notes for an article covering right to repair of medical devices on their talk page.

Not every "new consumer" issue with medical equipment falls under right to repair. There are also right to own considerations. (Such as having access to and control of my personal information - the readouts from my Cpap/pacemaker/etc. Also privacy issues. Who controls the device. ...) There are medical supplies (e.g. continuous glucose monitor patches or insulin refills, and things like region locking, supplier lockin, etc.) So I would not favor just moving the page to be only medical right to repair.

I am confident that there is more than enough verifiable information and issues to make at least one article.

I think the page should be kept. Having some general pages that link things together is helpful. Especially when a wiki is so skeletal as this. The page can certainly use improvement. I think having the beginnings of a structure encourages growth.

There is, as always, this disincentive to do anything to improve the page when it has a deletion notice. (No sense working on something that going to be destroyed.) [[User:Drakeula|Drakeula]] ([[User talk:Drakeula|talk]]) 02:32, 2 October 2025 (UTC)

:Maybe @[[User:Mr Pollo|Mr Pollo]] can give his take since he's generally the one who finalizes article deletion.
:As for my opinion, the article is simply too vague to be useful. Creating incident articles would be significantly more effective to shed a light on bad consumer practice in the medical industry, instead of one article with a ton of empty headlines. The article was created 9 months ago at this point yet only has 2 paragraphs worth of information. I take that to mean there is little interest in working on articles in the medical industry, and it's clear most people would rather discuss tech companies. So "encouraging growth" is not relevant at all in this case.

:The way to give fair weight to the issues in the medical industry is by creating more articles dedicated to the various incidents that have been reported on. A single master sheet makes it seem like CRW only cares about tech issues (of which there are hundreds of relevant articles) and only adds in a few things from other industries lumped into one page that people are unlikely to find in the middle of hundreds of tech articles.

:Incident pages are not "less than" company or product pages. They're simply different types. I don't think it's fair to say the medical ventilators article was "demoted" when the change was simply to portray the issues more accurately. Once I've gone through and edited the article to be more extensive and accurately portray the issue at hand, I hope that your position might change on the matter. And thanks for bringing it up anyway even if we disagree. It is motivating me to get to that article more quickly (as soon as I finish some smaller changes on articles I'm working on currently). [[User:Beanie Bo|Beanie Bo]] ([[User talk:Beanie Bo|talk]]) 14:53, 2 October 2025 (UTC)
::I can see the importance of having a page that includes the medical equipment, though a category system can also achieve this in a better way. There can be a main category (ex: Category:Medical equipment), and subcategories for the machines (ex: Category:MRI, Category:Ventilators) that include a small description of why they are consumer rights problems with alongside the Medical equipment category to link it all together.
::For example, this is what the source code of the Category:Ventilators could look like:
::<br />
::At the beginning of the Covid 19 pandemic, ventilators were suddenly in very high demand. Digital rights management and lack of right to repair made the equipment shortage worse, and probably increased mortality.<br>
::<nowiki>[[Category:Medical equipment]]</nowiki>
::Let me know what you both think of this approach! [[User:Mr Pollo|Mr Pollo]] ([[User talk:Mr Pollo|talk]]) 22:42, 3 October 2025 (UTC)
:::@[[User:Beanie Bo|Beanie Bo]]Sorry if the term demoted offended. It was not intended to. I was thinking in terms of the tree structure for the articles, not in terms of possible emotional impact. Lots of leaf [incident] articles, smaller number of device articles which aggregate/lead to the incidents, but can cover things more broadly, beyond just an incident. With theme articles (or possibly a missing article type, like a navigation articles) above that. So an incident article is less than a product page in the sense of being less general (more specific), not less important or valuable. I always try to be courteous, but sometimes I don't think of possible interpretations. So, my apologies.
:::I added a bit more meat to the article, hoping it will make it clearer what it could become, or inspire links to other relevant articles that exist, or inspire people to cover more medtech. If this article is to be deleted, what is the plan? Where would content like I added to the article better be placed? Is there a better name this theme article could be placed under? (I started a thread to discuss this on the article's talk page.)
:::For example, if this page goes, and the ventilator page just covers the covid emergency, then where can we put information about ventilators beyond the initial Covid surge?
:::I have more response, but want to sleep on it. [[User:Drakeula|Drakeula]] ([[User talk:Drakeula|talk]]) 18:22, 4 October 2025 (UTC)
:::I just realized why I used "demoted." The [[Consumer Rights Wiki:Article types|list of article types]] lists them numerically (product is Tier 2, incident is Tier 3). For Tier 2 it says "This tier of articles may well be the most useful to the casual reader. This is where someone who googles [insert thing here] consumer rights wiki will usually end up." Sure sounds like incident articles are "less than" product articles (as in less useful, less likely to be seen, a lower tier).
:::Just pointing out what seems to me a natural interpretation of the wiki policies. I am not trying to justify or defend my word choice. I still apologize if they caused offense. [[User:Drakeula|Drakeula]] ([[User talk:Drakeula|talk]]) 19:58, 4 October 2025 (UTC)
::::I do wonder whether 'trunk, branch, leaf' might be a better way of putting it than the tiers. I wrote the basic article categorisation system in an afternoon many months ago, so it is very much not gospel! It seems to mostly work, but if we do need to make tweaks, it's worth discussing [[User:Keith|Keith]] ([[User talk:Keith|talk]]) 16:58, 7 October 2025 (UTC)
:::::This makes perfect sense. I think it would help organize the wiki a lot, and help new contributors decide which article type is most fitting for what they want to write. [[User:Beanie Bo|Beanie Bo]] ([[User talk:Beanie Bo|talk]]) 17:27, 7 October 2025 (UTC)
:::@[[User:Mr Pollo|Mr Pollo]]@[[User:Beanie Bo|Beanie Bo]]
:::Just to be clear, when I first saw the medical equipment article, I figured it was a theme article. It would have been clearer had I said that in my initial appeal. I recognize that theme articles are to be used sparingly, but I think medical equipment has enough unique features and is important enough to consumers that a theme article is warranted.
:::I still think the [[medical equipment]] theme article is a better solution than categories.
:::The medical equipment theme article:
:::*Is easier for the reader (easier to make “grandmother” appropriate). (They don't have to learn how categories work.)
:::*Is easier for other articles to link to (don’t have to warn the reader that doing a context switch to categories).
:::*Allows compact coverage of additional issues and types of devices for which articles have not been created. (Easier to read and maintain than creating a bunch of stubs. Having mention of a device or issue may prompt people to create more detail.)
:::*Allows mention of considerations which would otherwise be replicated into articles in the area. (e.g., One could come up with boilerplate about FDA or insurance considerations, and copy it to the sub-articles – but maintenance headache.)
:::*Gives place to cover things which don’t fit neatly into the existing structure (e.g., artificial pancreas) (I am not advocating coverage there long term, but it is way we can capture those things that don’t fit neatly, rather than just losing them. As we find things that don’t quite fit, the structure can evolve. )
:::*The talk page gives a possible place for questions/discussion of articles in this area. (Or, if there is a better place for such discussion, the talk page could give a pointer to it.)
:::*A theme article fits in the official article types, whereas creating a new type of hybrid category/theme article feels like beyond the scope of what should be decided here?
:::Thanks. [[User:Drakeula|Drakeula]] ([[User talk:Drakeula|talk]]) 17:54, 6 October 2025 (UTC)
::::I generally think you're right to want to keep it here, and I think you've laid out good reasons for keeping it in mainspace rather than having it solely be a category page (a medical equipment category is also appropriate, but having a real page covering this sort of thing makes sense). We ideally want users to be able to navigate around the wiki through the use of links, and a general article on medical equipment, or conusmer protection in a medical context, is sensible. The article could certainly do with a coat of paint (maybe the examples should be tabulated?)
::::I'd probably say just keep it on the Wiki with a stub notice for now. Any thoughts @[[User:Mr Pollo|Mr Pollo]]@[[User:Beanie Bo|Beanie Bo]]?
::::It would probably at some point sit under an overarching 'medical consumer rights issues' article or something of the sort, and then this article serves to discuss equipment issues as opposed to ones related to payments, insurance, sales, etc. [[User:Keith|Keith]] ([[User talk:Keith|talk]]) 16:52, 7 October 2025 (UTC)
:::::@[[User:Keith|Keith]] I think you and Drakeula made great arguments for why it should stay. Though I guess I should say my personal philosophy, which is basically to assume that others by default ''won't'' work to improve existing articles, especially niche ones. Most users prefer high traffic articles pertaining to large companies or major controversies. My personal opinion is that leaving a lot of low quality stubs ruins the integrity of the wiki, ''especially'' for articles that are 3+ months old. When I add relevance/deletion notices, it's on these articles that:
:::::- have been stubs for 3+ months
:::::- have not had any notable edits/improvements in 1-3 months
:::::- are niche articles that have extremely low probability of further improvements, etc.
:::::As a moderator, I'm ''attempting'' to fill that gap, which is why I sort of informally taken control over articles I feel like I may be able to do justice in fixing (e.g. covid ventilators). When low quality articles are left on the wiki, it's basically the moderators' responsibility to fix them. And since we don't have enough hands or time to fix the hundreds of articles out there in need of substantial work, I tend to err on the side of deletion, simply for maintaining the wiki's integrity.
:::::So I understand completely why you err on the side of keeping articles unless they clearly do not belong. But I do genuinely think it could work against us if we have 900 articles yet half of them are stubs or need substantial improvements. And it's pretty clear that they will continue to stay stubs for months to come, leaving that stub-to-complete article ratio to ever increase.
:::::Just food for thought, I guess. - [[User:Beanie Bo|Beanie Bo]] ([[User talk:Beanie Bo|talk]]) 17:24, 7 October 2025 (UTC)
::::::I suppose my hope on that front has been that a good pool of 'stuff that needs work' will encourage people to work on it. Because we want the wiki to end up being reasonably comprehensive, I think that having a stub article basically just saying 'this should be an article, and here is at least enough stuff to justify it being more than just a row on article suggestions' has value in 'holding place' on the wiki and allowing other articles to link to it, and giving a bit of visibility that it needs to be properly written.
::::::Realistically, it will be quite some time before we are at the point where we'll expect the wiki to be useful to a reader. At that point, when it comes (maybe around ~2000 articles? next year once the UI overhaul is done?) it might made more sense to have a 'step-up' in how strict we are about zombie articles. So for now I'd say that policing the deletion zombie articles should probably be mostly restricted to articles that make you go 'this could just be an entry in the article suggestions page' (although if an article feels irrelevant or is just complete trash, that's a different matter). [[User:Keith|Keith]] ([[User talk:Keith|talk]]) 20:36, 7 October 2025 (UTC)
:::::::That makes total sense, especially considering how young the wiki still is. I see where you're coming from and I can adopt that philosophy lol. Thanks for explaining it [[User:Beanie Bo|Beanie Bo]] ([[User talk:Beanie Bo|talk]]) 21:22, 7 October 2025 (UTC)
::::::@[[User:Beanie Bo|Beanie Bo]] I agree with Keith on thinking that stubs help growth.
::::::I only found out about this wiki recently (month or so ago).
::::::I notice several things that makes the wiki unwelcoming to new editors. (This is not about any one editor, most of these are from multiple interactions with different people.)
::::::#Deletion discussions saying something hasn't gotten edits in xx months. As a newbie, how can I counter that? (Also, this encourages long term editors to make periodic "keep alive" edits, which seem like a waste of time.)
::::::#The constant fear of the wiki getting too big/successful. (Expressed by editors in multiple ways in discussion. This one is nuanced and complex. More on this elsewhere.)
::::::#I haven't had this happen, but I expect for long time editors, having something one worked on deleted just because life happens and you hadn't got back to it in a while would be discouraging.
::::::#Salting the ground. When one goes to create an article, all you see is that something was there. Don't see what it was, or why it was deleted. If I find that an article on this was deleted, I don't bother to create an article (even if I am sure it could be good and relevant.) So if you delete things just because they are old, one has increased the friction against creation. This is part of why I tend to imagine any article is the best, most relevant version of that article it could be. If that article should stay, then I would vote for keep. If it still doesn't pass muster, then I would say out it goes.
::::::#help being gated behind Discord's user agreement. (See [[Talk:Main_Page]])
::::::Might also be a matter of working style? Some people seem to have lots of projects working on at once (office so full of papers you need a shovel to find a chair). Others may do one thing deeply at one time (clean desk with only 1 file open at a time). Both extremes can work, just how to support both - allow the cluttered desk folks to have the "richness of opportunities/mess" and the clean desk folks to have their "streamlined/sterile & lifeless" workspace. (I hope I got that even handed. No offense meant to any of the styles.)
::::::I have certainly added to articles which were stubs, some of who's relevance had been questioned. I find something that is not my main focus, but in passing it inspires hey, I can add this example, or connect that up. Some of them have inspired me to think of other things worth covering here (articles to propose, etc.). (i.e., having a wide variety of shoots really does help growth)
::::::Sorry this got so long. [[User:Drakeula|Drakeula]] ([[User talk:Drakeula|talk]]) 00:21, 12 October 2025 (UTC)
::::::One other item to the list -- having an article proposed for deletion right after I try to make it more discoverable. One of the things I do is try to see what is here, and in the process connect related things. One of reasons an article might be undeveloped is it was hard to find. If going to propose based on article age, maybe wait a bit after new links put in. [[User:Drakeula|Drakeula]] ([[User talk:Drakeula|talk]]) 00:39, 12 October 2025 (UTC)
:::::I’m fine with either approach, though for now adding a Stub template is good. I agree we should be more strict on "zombie articles" once the wiki becomes more fleshed out. [[User:Mr Pollo|Mr Pollo]] ([[User talk:Mr Pollo|talk]]) 20:42, 7 October 2025 (UTC)

==Can someone help me on the mess I made here?==

Hello, I have recently made an article on the [[Biometric Information Privacy Act]] which I have completely messed up! I saw that King Louis made a place in the [[Friend app#See also|see also of the Friend app article]] about the BIPA, so I decided to make one myself, but me not being a US citizen and not fact checking, I based it on [[wikipedia:Biometric Information Privacy Act|this BIPA from Wikipedia]] but somehow combined it with this [https://www.congress.gov/bill/116th-congress/senate-bill/4400/text| bill] (the wikipedia one was an [https://www.ilga.gov/legislation/publicacts/fulltext.asp?Name=095-0994| Illinois] one). So basically what I did was combined two articles into one and only found out when doing refs ~1 day after. Should we [[wikipedia:WP:TNT|blow it up and start over]]? Somehow save this? I need help here. [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|<i><b>AnotherConsumerRightsPerson</b></i>]] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 14:37, 7 October 2025 (UTC)

:The second bill you shared leads to a broken page. I'm gonna go ahead and make the judgment call that you can nuke it. Trying to parse through the information of which bill it belongs to might take more time than simply starting over. Also, I personally operate on the philosophy that "if I don't fix it myself, no one else will" (which isn't ''always'' true, but it's true often enough). And it seems especially true for niche pages like this one. If you want to fix it yourself, just make sure you add Illinois to your searches and make sure the relevant websites is Illinois state and not federal govt. Thanks for the attempts anyway, even if it gets nuked. We always appreciate contributors looking into policies and such, since it's rare that it happens. You're good! [[User:Beanie Bo|Beanie Bo]] ([[User talk:Beanie Bo|talk]]) 15:24, 7 October 2025 (UTC)
::Should've checked the second bill! I'll add a deletionreq now. [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|<i><b>AnotherConsumerRightsPerson</b></i>]] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 16:24, 7 October 2025 (UTC)
:::Oh, I meant erasing the content and perhaps just having a one paragraph explanation and stub! Probably shouldn't have said "nuke." I was referring to that wiki article you linked to: "With articles, this is the '''TNT tipping point''' argument: if the article's content is useless (including all the versions in history) but the title might be useful, then delete the content to help encourage a new article." Maybe I read it wrong, sorry! [[User:Beanie Bo|Beanie Bo]] ([[User talk:Beanie Bo|talk]]) 17:09, 7 October 2025 (UTC)
::::<nowiki>*facepalm*</nowiki> Thanks for removing it, I couldn’t have because abuse filter. Also, the WP:TNT article means to delete the entire thing (done via a deletion discussion, which is in Wikipedia where people vote on whether to keep or delete an article) [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|<i><b>AnotherConsumerRightsPerson</b></i>]] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 17:40, 7 October 2025 (UTC)

==Remove ‘Help About MediaWiki’ from the main menu list==

This literally comes with MediaWiki to help you learn about it while setting up and it is still in the main menu. I don’t see why we need this? [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|<i><b>AnotherConsumerRightsPerson</b></i>]] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 06:09, 8 October 2025 (UTC)

:Good catch; I know its there to help people learn how to edit and do things but after initial set up it does not serve much purpose; maybe we could change it to the editting guide or something becuase there is still usefulness in linking to a mediawiki edit guide or functional tutorial so new users can learn how to edit. [[User:Atsumari|Atsumari]] ([[User talk:Atsumari|talk]]) 15:34, 12 October 2025 (UTC)
:removed! ty for the catch [[User:Keith|Keith]] ([[User talk:Keith|talk]]) 16:12, 12 October 2025 (UTC)

==Top contributors page==

Hello, there’s a [[Top Contributors]] page AND [[Special:ContributionScores]] page. The sidebar currently directs you to the ContributionScores page, so the Top Contributors page is useless. [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|<i><b>AnotherConsumerRightsPerson</b></i>]] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 15:15, 15 October 2025 (UTC)

:Hi, I dont see that link on the sidebar; where do you see this - [[User:Atsumari|Atsumari]] ([[User talk:Atsumari|talk]]) 15:49, 15 October 2025 (UTC)

Mission statement

2025-10-12T15:55:51Z

Atsumari: /* How this Wiki will be used */

__NOTOC__

'''The mission of this Wiki is to document a new generation of consumer exploitation that bears no resemblance to issues of the 1950s-1990s. We focus on the issues that often go unnoticed by review sites, tech press, and traditional consumer protection publications.'''

==Consumer protection has changed==

===What is "old" consumer protection?===

30 years ago, consumer advocacy dealt with more visible problems:
#Unsafe products
#Misleading labels
#Materially false advertising
#Bait & switch pricing
#Not delivering goods after payment
#Lead in toys
#Discrimination

===What is "new" consumer protection?===

Today's consumers face different forms of exploitation that strike at the heart of what it means to ''own'' something, and are deliberately designed to be difficult to understand or resist. Above all, unlike the issues above, these issues are usually ''not even illegal''.

Modern businesses have perfected the art of subtle control. They are able to:
#Remotely deactivate products you "own" via cloud services.
#Alter a purchased item into a significantly different version after the sale.
#Gather personal data without adequate disclosure and sell it without proper consent.
#Hinder service cancellation by designing systems where signing up is a single click, but canceling involves navigating a complex process of sending certified mail and enduring endless phone menus.
#Change the definitions of "purchase" and "own" deep within an end user license agreement, providing legal grounds to remove items you have "purchased" from your library.
#Intentionally create obstacles to repair, causing otherwise functional devices to become unusable.
#Coerce you into forced arbitration by sending an email and assuming that not responding signifies agreement to new terms of service.

"Old" style consumer protection covers exposing and pursuing companies that break '''existing''' laws. Modern consumer protection efforts exist and are distinct, because '''the consumer protection laws that currently exist are not fit for purpose'''. Companies are able to exploit legal loopholes, or legally dubious strategies which are not met with meaningful consequences, to trap their customers in unfavorable positions. They rely on complexity & fatigue to prevent resistance.

'''These abuses of the consumer have a common thread:'''
*Take away the consumer's right to say '''"NO".'''
*Take away the consumer's right of ''ownership.''
*Take away the consumer's right to privacy.

===How we're taking action===

This Wiki exists to document and expose these practices, making visible what companies work hard to keep obscure. By creating a centralized knowledge base of modern consumer exploitation tactics, we aim to help consumers understand how their rights are being systematically violated through technology, psychology, deliberately complex legal mechanisms, as well as the ineffective governmental bodies that allow it to happen.

'''Our goal is to bring clarity to these new practices that companies intentionally make opaque and to provide consumers with the information they need to recognize and fight back against new forms of exploitation.'''

Beyond this, we aim for the information collated here to become a vital aid to those lobbying for improved consumer protections. When a corporate lobbyist tries to dismiss the need for such protections, we will provide activists with the resource they need to demonstrate that consumers are facing real issues on a large scale, and that there is absolutely a legal need to prevent further consumer restrictions and abuse.

==How this Wiki will be used==

It is expected that the Wiki will be contributed to by a wide variety of people, both technical and non-technical, who share a desire to see consumers be treated more fairly. It will enable this by being quick and easy to contribute to, with a low barrier to entry for contributors. This barrier to entry should be maintained at the minimum level necessary to combat spam and bad actors.

The base focus of the Wiki is expected to be on issues frequently discussed on Louis Rossmann’s channel, and those adjacent to the right-to-repair movement, though this may grow to a more all-encompassing definition of consumer protection over time. The minimum desired goal is to have a site that records, in a helpful and searchable format, the specific issues and topics that have been discussed on Louis’ channel over the years, with factual citations.

Ideally, it should aim to grow and act as a one-stop-shop, where a user can discover how the companies they buy products from are working against their interests behind the scenes, and what they can do about it. It should serve to highlight how consumer rights have been eroded over the years and give people the knowledge and tools to fight back against the tide. It will feature factual documentation relating to specific instances of consumer abuse, articles that track the consumer-protection-related activities of large companies and certain individuals, as well as articles and content which serve to educate users about the different forms of consumer abuse.

The Wiki will aim to be viewed as a legitimate source that, though not perfect, can generally be relied upon to provide accurate information, in a similar vein to other Wiki-projects. '''It is crucial for the Wiki to take steps to avoid causing harassment or financial harm to companies as a result of false or misleading information. It will enable this by attracting an excellent team of moderators, and giving them powerful and effective tools to combat spam and misinformation. If problems arise in this area, we will treat them with the utmost seriousness, as they may jeopardize the entire project.'''

In seeking this legitimacy, it is important that the appropriate tone is used. The exact tone that is appropriate for a given article will be defined in the Editorial Guidelines (along with the range of acceptable tones for the wiki as a whole) and will vary based on the type of article. In general, we will aim for professionalism. A project like this cannot obtain or maintain legitimacy if every article comes across as being written by someone with an axe to grind or by someone who is more interested in proving a point than the truth. Please see the [[Wiki Content Policies]] page for more guidance here, as well as the [[Consumer Rights Wiki:Editorial guidelines|Editorial guidelines]] page.

The full, official, collection of Consumer Rights Wiki policies can be found [[Consumer Rights Wiki:Wiki policy index|here]]. This page can also be accessed via the sidebar.

If you would like to contact the Wiki staff for help with the Wiki or to report a serious issue with content on the site, visit our Discord (link on the sidebar), post on the [[Consumer Rights Wiki talk:Moderators' noticeboard|Moderator Noticeboard]], or email help@consumerrights.wiki.
[[Category:CRW]]

Mission statement

2025-10-12T15:55:00Z

Atsumari: /* How this Wiki will be used */ grammar

__NOTOC__

'''The mission of this Wiki is to document a new generation of consumer exploitation that bears no resemblance to issues of the 1950s-1990s. We focus on the issues that often go unnoticed by review sites, tech press, and traditional consumer protection publications.'''

==Consumer protection has changed==

===What is "old" consumer protection?===

30 years ago, consumer advocacy dealt with more visible problems:
#Unsafe products
#Misleading labels
#Materially false advertising
#Bait & switch pricing
#Not delivering goods after payment
#Lead in toys
#Discrimination

===What is "new" consumer protection?===

Today's consumers face different forms of exploitation that strike at the heart of what it means to ''own'' something, and are deliberately designed to be difficult to understand or resist. Above all, unlike the issues above, these issues are usually ''not even illegal''.

Modern businesses have perfected the art of subtle control. They are able to:
#Remotely deactivate products you "own" via cloud services.
#Alter a purchased item into a significantly different version after the sale.
#Gather personal data without adequate disclosure and sell it without proper consent.
#Hinder service cancellation by designing systems where signing up is a single click, but canceling involves navigating a complex process of sending certified mail and enduring endless phone menus.
#Change the definitions of "purchase" and "own" deep within an end user license agreement, providing legal grounds to remove items you have "purchased" from your library.
#Intentionally create obstacles to repair, causing otherwise functional devices to become unusable.
#Coerce you into forced arbitration by sending an email and assuming that not responding signifies agreement to new terms of service.

"Old" style consumer protection covers exposing and pursuing companies that break '''existing''' laws. Modern consumer protection efforts exist and are distinct, because '''the consumer protection laws that currently exist are not fit for purpose'''. Companies are able to exploit legal loopholes, or legally dubious strategies which are not met with meaningful consequences, to trap their customers in unfavorable positions. They rely on complexity & fatigue to prevent resistance.

'''These abuses of the consumer have a common thread:'''
*Take away the consumer's right to say '''"NO".'''
*Take away the consumer's right of ''ownership.''
*Take away the consumer's right to privacy.

===How we're taking action===

This Wiki exists to document and expose these practices, making visible what companies work hard to keep obscure. By creating a centralized knowledge base of modern consumer exploitation tactics, we aim to help consumers understand how their rights are being systematically violated through technology, psychology, deliberately complex legal mechanisms, as well as the ineffective governmental bodies that allow it to happen.

'''Our goal is to bring clarity to these new practices that companies intentionally make opaque and to provide consumers with the information they need to recognize and fight back against new forms of exploitation.'''

Beyond this, we aim for the information collated here to become a vital aid to those lobbying for improved consumer protections. When a corporate lobbyist tries to dismiss the need for such protections, we will provide activists with the resource they need to demonstrate that consumers are facing real issues on a large scale, and that there is absolutely a legal need to prevent further consumer restrictions and abuse.

==How this Wiki will be used==

It is expected that the Wiki will be contributed to by a wide variety of people, both technical and non-technical, who share a desire to see consumers be treated more fairly. It will enable this by being quick and easy to contribute to, with a low barrier to entry for contributors. This barrier to entry should be maintained at the minimum level necessary to combat spam and bad actors.

The base focus of the Wiki is expected to be on issues frequently discussed on Louis Rossmann’s channel, and those adjacent to the right-to-repair movement, though this may grow to a more all-encompassing definition of consumer protection over time. The minimum desired goal is to have a site that records, in a helpful and searchable format, the specific issues and topics that have been discussed on Louis’ channel over the years, with factual citations.

Ideally, it should aim to grow and act as a one-stop-shop, where a user can discover how the companies they buy products from are working against their interests behind the scenes, and what they can do about it. It should serve to highlight how consumer rights have been eroded over the years and give people the knowledge and tools to fight back against the tide. It will feature factual documentation relating to specific instances of consumer abuse, articles that track the consumer-protection-related activities of large companies and certain individuals, as well as articles and content which serve to educate users about the different forms of consumer abuse.

The Wiki will aim to be viewed as a legitimate source that, though not perfect, can generally be relied upon to provide accurate information, in a similar vein to other Wiki-projects. '''It is crucial for the Wiki to take steps to avoid causing harassment or financial harm to companies as a result of false or misleading information. It will enable this by attracting an excellent team of moderators, and giving them powerful and effective tools to combat spam and misinformation. If problems arise in this area, we will treat them with the utmost seriousness, as they may jeopardize the entire project.'''

In seeking this legitimacy, it is important that the appropriate tone is used. The exact tone that is appropriate for a given article will be defined in the Editorial Guidelines (along with the range of acceptable tones for the wiki as a whole) and will vary based on the type of article. In general, we will aim for professionalism. A project like this cannot obtain or maintain legitimacy if every article comes across as being written by someone with an axe to grind or by someone who is more interested in proving a point than the truth. Please see the [[Wiki Content Policies]] page for more guidance here, as well as the [[Consumer Rights Wiki:Editorial guidelines|Editorial guidelines]] page.

The full, official, collection of Consumer Rights Wiki policies can be found [[Consumer Rights Wiki:Wiki policy index|here]]. This page can also be accessed via the sidebar.

If you would like to contact the Wiki staff for help with the Wiki or to report a serious issue with content on the site, visit our Discord (link on the menu), post on the [[Consumer Rights Wiki talk:Moderators' noticeboard|Moderator Noticeboard]], or email help@consumerrights.wiki.
[[Category:CRW]]

Mission statement

2025-10-12T15:53:35Z

Atsumari: /* How this Wiki will be used */

__NOTOC__

'''The mission of this Wiki is to document a new generation of consumer exploitation that bears no resemblance to issues of the 1950s-1990s. We focus on the issues that often go unnoticed by review sites, tech press, and traditional consumer protection publications.'''

==Consumer protection has changed==

===What is "old" consumer protection?===

30 years ago, consumer advocacy dealt with more visible problems:
#Unsafe products
#Misleading labels
#Materially false advertising
#Bait & switch pricing
#Not delivering goods after payment
#Lead in toys
#Discrimination

===What is "new" consumer protection?===

Today's consumers face different forms of exploitation that strike at the heart of what it means to ''own'' something, and are deliberately designed to be difficult to understand or resist. Above all, unlike the issues above, these issues are usually ''not even illegal''.

Modern businesses have perfected the art of subtle control. They are able to:
#Remotely deactivate products you "own" via cloud services.
#Alter a purchased item into a significantly different version after the sale.
#Gather personal data without adequate disclosure and sell it without proper consent.
#Hinder service cancellation by designing systems where signing up is a single click, but canceling involves navigating a complex process of sending certified mail and enduring endless phone menus.
#Change the definitions of "purchase" and "own" deep within an end user license agreement, providing legal grounds to remove items you have "purchased" from your library.
#Intentionally create obstacles to repair, causing otherwise functional devices to become unusable.
#Coerce you into forced arbitration by sending an email and assuming that not responding signifies agreement to new terms of service.

"Old" style consumer protection covers exposing and pursuing companies that break '''existing''' laws. Modern consumer protection efforts exist and are distinct, because '''the consumer protection laws that currently exist are not fit for purpose'''. Companies are able to exploit legal loopholes, or legally dubious strategies which are not met with meaningful consequences, to trap their customers in unfavorable positions. They rely on complexity & fatigue to prevent resistance.

'''These abuses of the consumer have a common thread:'''
*Take away the consumer's right to say '''"NO".'''
*Take away the consumer's right of ''ownership.''
*Take away the consumer's right to privacy.

===How we're taking action===

This Wiki exists to document and expose these practices, making visible what companies work hard to keep obscure. By creating a centralized knowledge base of modern consumer exploitation tactics, we aim to help consumers understand how their rights are being systematically violated through technology, psychology, deliberately complex legal mechanisms, as well as the ineffective governmental bodies that allow it to happen.

'''Our goal is to bring clarity to these new practices that companies intentionally make opaque and to provide consumers with the information they need to recognize and fight back against new forms of exploitation.'''

Beyond this, we aim for the information collated here to become a vital aid to those lobbying for improved consumer protections. When a corporate lobbyist tries to dismiss the need for such protections, we will provide activists with the resource they need to demonstrate that consumers are facing real issues on a large scale, and that there is absolutely a legal need to prevent further consumer restrictions and abuse.

==How this Wiki will be used==

It is expected that the Wiki will be contributed to by a wide variety of people, both technical and non-technical, who share a desire to see consumers be treated more fairly. It will enable this by being quick and easy to contribute to, with a low barrier to entry for contributors. This barrier to entry should be maintained at the minimum level necessary to combat spam and bad actors.

The base focus of the Wiki is expected to be on issues frequently discussed on Louis Rossmann’s channel, and those adjacent to the right-to-repair movement, though this may grow to a more all-encompassing definition of consumer protection over time. The minimum desired goal is to have a site that records, in a helpful and searchable format, the specific issues and topics that have been discussed on Louis’ channel over the years, with factual citations.

Ideally, it should aim to grow and act as a one-stop-shop, where a user can discover how the companies they buy products from are working against their interests behind the scenes, and what they can do about it. It should serve to highlight how consumer rights have been eroded over the years and give people the knowledge and tools to fight back against the tide. It will feature factual documentation relating to specific instances of consumer abuse, articles that track the consumer-protection-related activities of large companies and certain individuals, as well as articles and content which serve to educate users about the different forms of consumer abuse.

The Wiki will aim to be viewed as a legitimate source that, though not perfect, can generally be relied upon to provide accurate information, in a similar vein to other Wiki-projects. '''It is crucial for the Wiki to take steps to avoid causing harassment or financial harm to companies as a result of false or misleading information. It will enable this by attracting an excellent team of moderators, and giving them powerful and effective tools to combat spam and misinformation. If problems arise in this area, we will treat them with the utmost seriousness, as they may jeopardize the entire project.'''

In seeking this legitimacy, it is important that the appropriate tone is used. The exact tone that is appropriate for a given article will be defined in the Editorial Guidelines (along with the range of acceptable tones for the wiki as a whole) and will vary based on the type of article. In general, we will aim for professionalism. A project like this cannot obtain or maintain legitimacy if every article comes across as being written by someone with an axe to grind or by someone who is more interested in proving a point than the truth. Please see the [[Wiki Content Policies]] page for more guidance here, as well as the [[Consumer Rights Wiki:Editorial guidelines|Editorial guidelines]] page.

The full, official, collection of Consumer Rights Wiki policies can be found [[Consumer Rights Wiki:Wiki policy index|here]]. This page can also be accessed via the sidebar.

If you would like to contact the Wiki staff to contact us for help with the Wiki or to report a serious issue with content on the site, either visit our discord (link on the menu), post on the [[Consumer Rights Wiki talk:Moderators' noticeboard|Moderator Noticeboard]] or email help@consumerrights.wiki.
[[Category:CRW]]

Consumer Rights Wiki talk:Bugs

2025-10-12T15:49:51Z

Atsumari: /* How do you edit beginning of an article with StubNotice? */

Consumer Rights Wiki talk:Bugs

2025-10-12T15:46:32Z

Atsumari: /* How do you edit beginning of an article with StubNotice? */ Reply

Consumer Rights Wiki talk:Moderators' noticeboard

2025-10-12T15:34:16Z

Atsumari: /* Remove ‘Help About MediaWiki’ from the main menu list */ Reply

<div style="margin: {{#ifeq:{{{navbox|<noinclude>yes</noinclude>}}}|yes|2px}} 0 0.5em; padding: 0.5em; {{{style|border: 1px solid #A0A5AD;}}} {{{backgroundstyle|background-color: var(--background-color-progressive-subtle, #eaf3ff); color: inherit;}}}">
<div style="padding: 0.25em 0; text-align: center; font-size: 120%; border-radius: 3px; font-weight: bold; {{{titlestyle|background-color: var(--background-color-content-added, #aad1ff); color: inherit;}}}">Welcome — post issues of interest to Moderators</div>
*Post '''appeals''' to article notice templates (e.g. Incomplete, Stub, etc.)
*Post requests for '''moderator action''' here (e.g. blocks)
*Just need a mod? Post here or ping a mod with a question.
*Post any information or news relevant to the moderation team here.
*To request an article to be created, do not post here, try [[Article suggestions]] instead.
*Do not report technical issues here, please use the [[Consumer_Rights_Wiki_talk:Bugs|Bugs noticeboard]] instead.

<div style="padding: 0.25em 0; text-align: center; font-size: 150%; border-radius: 3px; font-weight: bold">[[Special:NewSection/Consumer Rights Wiki talk:Moderators' noticeboard|Start a new section]]</div>
</div>
<br />
{{Archives}} 
==Open tasks==

*[[:Category:Articles with deletion requests]]
*[[:Category:Articles with merge requests]]
*[[:Category:Articles marked as irrelevant]]
*[[Special:NewPages]]

==Outdated wiki link==
The following I copypasted from [[Template:ToneWarning]]’s talk page. [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|AnotherConsumerRightsPerson]] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 15:13, 17 September 2025 (UTC)

:Done! [[User:Keith|Keith]] ([[User talk:Keith|talk]]) 11:28, 8 October 2025 (UTC)

Due to the changes made since this template's creation in January 2025, I recommend updating the link used for "editorial guidelines". Clicking on it currently leads to the top of the [[Mission statement]] article since the original section label no longer exists. — [[User:Sojourna|Sojourna]] ([[User talk:Sojourna|talk]]) 01:32, 12 July 2025 (UTC)
:More specifically, it should point to [[Consumer_Rights_Wiki:Editorial_guidelines]] instead of [[Mission statement]]. [[User:NOTAROBOT|NOTAROBOT]] ([[User talk:NOTAROBOT|talk]]) 11:51, 9 August 2025 (UTC)

==Place fightchatcontrol.eu in a prominent place on the homepage.==

I wish to have https://fightchatcontrol.eu/ on the top of consumerrights.wiki. I understand that this is not a corporation thing. But privacy is something many of the people here strongly value and this is an important project for everyones rights. [[User:Dentist5735|Dentist5735]] ([[User talk:Dentist5735|talk]]) 00:03, 18 September 2025 (UTC)

:Not a mod and so won’t implement it myself but there is a ‘consumer tools’ section if you scoll down very far that this would kinda fit in to. [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|AnotherConsumerRightsPerson]] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 05:21, 18 September 2025 (UTC)

==Itron article has been flagged for questionable relevance.==

I believe the [[Itron]] article has been mistakenly flagged for questionable relevance. I have added several Incidents to the page to further show Itron's systemic patterns of consumer privacy violations please see the below:

''Itron's Smart meters allow them to collect, process, and store data without the end users' knowledge. (1980-Present)''

''NYSEG requires customers to switch to Itron Smart meters or face monthly charge (November 2022-Present)''

''CenterPoint Energy requires customers to switch to Itron Smart meters or face one-time and monthly service charges (Unknown-Present)''

''Southern California Edison requires customers to switch to Itron Smart meters or face monthly charge (Unknown-Present)''

Smart meter (and smart grid solutions) usage by utility companies involves a lot of layers but these are what I find to be most concerning:

''Lack of data privacy, utility companies can freely share customer data with third party smart meter companies (such as Itron) without customer knowledge.''

''Lack of freedom to choose whether or not you have a smart meter recording your electricity usage. This data can be used to infer all sorts of things from what kind of appliances you own to when you are home.''

''Itron's Data Processing Agreement is un-viewable (at least for me) and not easy to find either, and end users typically do not know they will have an Itron smart meter until after it is installed by their electric company.''

Itron is not the only smart meter and smart grid solutions game in town but they are big and not end user friendly,.

Thank Mods! [[User:Privacywarrior|Privacywarrior]] ([[User talk:Privacywarrior|talk]]) 19:11, 28 September 2025 (UTC)

==Watch out for this person==

I was sent an e-mail yesterday (Sept 28th) from a person by the name "PawPatroler" who has apparently {{Wplink|User_talk:PawPatroler#Unblock_me,_please!|been harassing other wikis}} with the same appeal message in an attempt to have their Wikipedia account unbanned. Hopefully this just remains a one-off. — [[User:Sojourna|Sojourna]] ([[User talk:Sojourna|talk]]) 02:16, 30 September 2025 (UTC)

:I got the email as well. Didn't know about the Wikipedia thing though. @[[User:Keith|Keith]] might wanna check this out [[User:Beanie Bo|Beanie Bo]] ([[User talk:Beanie Bo|talk]]) 12:12, 30 September 2025 (UTC)

==Appeal deletion of Medical equipment page==

[[Medical equipment]] has some issues relating to manufacturer lockdown and repair which are important (right to repair is right to save lives) and which may be somewhat different from issues in other devices. This page appears to be the natural place to cover these issues.

There was a device page on medical ventilators, but it has been demoted to an incident page.

This deletion request is particularly confusing, because @[[User:Beanie Bo|Beanie Bo]] who proposed deletion, has what looks like some notes for an article covering right to repair of medical devices on their talk page.

Not every "new consumer" issue with medical equipment falls under right to repair. There are also right to own considerations. (Such as having access to and control of my personal information - the readouts from my Cpap/pacemaker/etc. Also privacy issues. Who controls the device. ...) There are medical supplies (e.g. continuous glucose monitor patches or insulin refills, and things like region locking, supplier lockin, etc.) So I would not favor just moving the page to be only medical right to repair.

I am confident that there is more than enough verifiable information and issues to make at least one article.

I think the page should be kept. Having some general pages that link things together is helpful. Especially when a wiki is so skeletal as this. The page can certainly use improvement. I think having the beginnings of a structure encourages growth.

There is, as always, this disincentive to do anything to improve the page when it has a deletion notice. (No sense working on something that going to be destroyed.) [[User:Drakeula|Drakeula]] ([[User talk:Drakeula|talk]]) 02:32, 2 October 2025 (UTC)

:Maybe @[[User:Mr Pollo|Mr Pollo]] can give his take since he's generally the one who finalizes article deletion.
:As for my opinion, the article is simply too vague to be useful. Creating incident articles would be significantly more effective to shed a light on bad consumer practice in the medical industry, instead of one article with a ton of empty headlines. The article was created 9 months ago at this point yet only has 2 paragraphs worth of information. I take that to mean there is little interest in working on articles in the medical industry, and it's clear most people would rather discuss tech companies. So "encouraging growth" is not relevant at all in this case.

:The way to give fair weight to the issues in the medical industry is by creating more articles dedicated to the various incidents that have been reported on. A single master sheet makes it seem like CRW only cares about tech issues (of which there are hundreds of relevant articles) and only adds in a few things from other industries lumped into one page that people are unlikely to find in the middle of hundreds of tech articles.

:Incident pages are not "less than" company or product pages. They're simply different types. I don't think it's fair to say the medical ventilators article was "demoted" when the change was simply to portray the issues more accurately. Once I've gone through and edited the article to be more extensive and accurately portray the issue at hand, I hope that your position might change on the matter. And thanks for bringing it up anyway even if we disagree. It is motivating me to get to that article more quickly (as soon as I finish some smaller changes on articles I'm working on currently). [[User:Beanie Bo|Beanie Bo]] ([[User talk:Beanie Bo|talk]]) 14:53, 2 October 2025 (UTC)
::I can see the importance of having a page that includes the medical equipment, though a category system can also achieve this in a better way. There can be a main category (ex: Category:Medical equipment), and subcategories for the machines (ex: Category:MRI, Category:Ventilators) that include a small description of why they are consumer rights problems with alongside the Medical equipment category to link it all together.
::For example, this is what the source code of the Category:Ventilators could look like:
::<br />
::At the beginning of the Covid 19 pandemic, ventilators were suddenly in very high demand. Digital rights management and lack of right to repair made the equipment shortage worse, and probably increased mortality.<br>
::<nowiki>[[Category:Medical equipment]]</nowiki>
::Let me know what you both think of this approach! [[User:Mr Pollo|Mr Pollo]] ([[User talk:Mr Pollo|talk]]) 22:42, 3 October 2025 (UTC)
:::@[[User:Beanie Bo|Beanie Bo]]Sorry if the term demoted offended. It was not intended to. I was thinking in terms of the tree structure for the articles, not in terms of possible emotional impact. Lots of leaf [incident] articles, smaller number of device articles which aggregate/lead to the incidents, but can cover things more broadly, beyond just an incident. With theme articles (or possibly a missing article type, like a navigation articles) above that. So an incident article is less than a product page in the sense of being less general (more specific), not less important or valuable. I always try to be courteous, but sometimes I don't think of possible interpretations. So, my apologies.
:::I added a bit more meat to the article, hoping it will make it clearer what it could become, or inspire links to other relevant articles that exist, or inspire people to cover more medtech. If this article is to be deleted, what is the plan? Where would content like I added to the article better be placed? Is there a better name this theme article could be placed under? (I started a thread to discuss this on the article's talk page.)
:::For example, if this page goes, and the ventilator page just covers the covid emergency, then where can we put information about ventilators beyond the initial Covid surge?
:::I have more response, but want to sleep on it. [[User:Drakeula|Drakeula]] ([[User talk:Drakeula|talk]]) 18:22, 4 October 2025 (UTC)
:::I just realized why I used "demoted." The [[Consumer Rights Wiki:Article types|list of article types]] lists them numerically (product is Tier 2, incident is Tier 3). For Tier 2 it says "This tier of articles may well be the most useful to the casual reader. This is where someone who googles [insert thing here] consumer rights wiki will usually end up." Sure sounds like incident articles are "less than" product articles (as in less useful, less likely to be seen, a lower tier).
:::Just pointing out what seems to me a natural interpretation of the wiki policies. I am not trying to justify or defend my word choice. I still apologize if they caused offense. [[User:Drakeula|Drakeula]] ([[User talk:Drakeula|talk]]) 19:58, 4 October 2025 (UTC)
::::I do wonder whether 'trunk, branch, leaf' might be a better way of putting it than the tiers. I wrote the basic article categorisation system in an afternoon many months ago, so it is very much not gospel! It seems to mostly work, but if we do need to make tweaks, it's worth discussing [[User:Keith|Keith]] ([[User talk:Keith|talk]]) 16:58, 7 October 2025 (UTC)
:::::This makes perfect sense. I think it would help organize the wiki a lot, and help new contributors decide which article type is most fitting for what they want to write. [[User:Beanie Bo|Beanie Bo]] ([[User talk:Beanie Bo|talk]]) 17:27, 7 October 2025 (UTC)
:::@[[User:Mr Pollo|Mr Pollo]]@[[User:Beanie Bo|Beanie Bo]]
:::Just to be clear, when I first saw the medical equipment article, I figured it was a theme article. It would have been clearer had I said that in my initial appeal. I recognize that theme articles are to be used sparingly, but I think medical equipment has enough unique features and is important enough to consumers that a theme article is warranted.
:::I still think the [[medical equipment]] theme article is a better solution than categories.
:::The medical equipment theme article:
:::*Is easier for the reader (easier to make “grandmother” appropriate). (They don't have to learn how categories work.)
:::*Is easier for other articles to link to (don’t have to warn the reader that doing a context switch to categories).
:::*Allows compact coverage of additional issues and types of devices for which articles have not been created. (Easier to read and maintain than creating a bunch of stubs. Having mention of a device or issue may prompt people to create more detail.)
:::*Allows mention of considerations which would otherwise be replicated into articles in the area. (e.g., One could come up with boilerplate about FDA or insurance considerations, and copy it to the sub-articles – but maintenance headache.)
:::*Gives place to cover things which don’t fit neatly into the existing structure (e.g., artificial pancreas) (I am not advocating coverage there long term, but it is way we can capture those things that don’t fit neatly, rather than just losing them. As we find things that don’t quite fit, the structure can evolve. )
:::*The talk page gives a possible place for questions/discussion of articles in this area. (Or, if there is a better place for such discussion, the talk page could give a pointer to it.)
:::*A theme article fits in the official article types, whereas creating a new type of hybrid category/theme article feels like beyond the scope of what should be decided here?
:::Thanks. [[User:Drakeula|Drakeula]] ([[User talk:Drakeula|talk]]) 17:54, 6 October 2025 (UTC)
::::I generally think you're right to want to keep it here, and I think you've laid out good reasons for keeping it in mainspace rather than having it solely be a category page (a medical equipment category is also appropriate, but having a real page covering this sort of thing makes sense). We ideally want users to be able to navigate around the wiki through the use of links, and a general article on medical equipment, or conusmer protection in a medical context, is sensible. The article could certainly do with a coat of paint (maybe the examples should be tabulated?)
::::I'd probably say just keep it on the Wiki with a stub notice for now. Any thoughts @[[User:Mr Pollo|Mr Pollo]]@[[User:Beanie Bo|Beanie Bo]]?
::::It would probably at some point sit under an overarching 'medical consumer rights issues' article or something of the sort, and then this article serves to discuss equipment issues as opposed to ones related to payments, insurance, sales, etc. [[User:Keith|Keith]] ([[User talk:Keith|talk]]) 16:52, 7 October 2025 (UTC)
:::::@[[User:Keith|Keith]] I think you and Drakeula made great arguments for why it should stay. Though I guess I should say my personal philosophy, which is basically to assume that others by default ''won't'' work to improve existing articles, especially niche ones. Most users prefer high traffic articles pertaining to large companies or major controversies. My personal opinion is that leaving a lot of low quality stubs ruins the integrity of the wiki, ''especially'' for articles that are 3+ months old. When I add relevance/deletion notices, it's on these articles that:
:::::- have been stubs for 3+ months
:::::- have not had any notable edits/improvements in 1-3 months
:::::- are niche articles that have extremely low probability of further improvements, etc.
:::::As a moderator, I'm ''attempting'' to fill that gap, which is why I sort of informally taken control over articles I feel like I may be able to do justice in fixing (e.g. covid ventilators). When low quality articles are left on the wiki, it's basically the moderators' responsibility to fix them. And since we don't have enough hands or time to fix the hundreds of articles out there in need of substantial work, I tend to err on the side of deletion, simply for maintaining the wiki's integrity.
:::::So I understand completely why you err on the side of keeping articles unless they clearly do not belong. But I do genuinely think it could work against us if we have 900 articles yet half of them are stubs or need substantial improvements. And it's pretty clear that they will continue to stay stubs for months to come, leaving that stub-to-complete article ratio to ever increase.
:::::Just food for thought, I guess. - [[User:Beanie Bo|Beanie Bo]] ([[User talk:Beanie Bo|talk]]) 17:24, 7 October 2025 (UTC)
::::::I suppose my hope on that front has been that a good pool of 'stuff that needs work' will encourage people to work on it. Because we want the wiki to end up being reasonably comprehensive, I think that having a stub article basically just saying 'this should be an article, and here is at least enough stuff to justify it being more than just a row on article suggestions' has value in 'holding place' on the wiki and allowing other articles to link to it, and giving a bit of visibility that it needs to be properly written.
::::::Realistically, it will be quite some time before we are at the point where we'll expect the wiki to be useful to a reader. At that point, when it comes (maybe around ~2000 articles? next year once the UI overhaul is done?) it might made more sense to have a 'step-up' in how strict we are about zombie articles. So for now I'd say that policing the deletion zombie articles should probably be mostly restricted to articles that make you go 'this could just be an entry in the article suggestions page' (although if an article feels irrelevant or is just complete trash, that's a different matter). [[User:Keith|Keith]] ([[User talk:Keith|talk]]) 20:36, 7 October 2025 (UTC)
:::::::That makes total sense, especially considering how young the wiki still is. I see where you're coming from and I can adopt that philosophy lol. Thanks for explaining it [[User:Beanie Bo|Beanie Bo]] ([[User talk:Beanie Bo|talk]]) 21:22, 7 October 2025 (UTC)
::::::@[[User:Beanie Bo|Beanie Bo]] I agree with Keith on thinking that stubs help growth.
::::::I only found out about this wiki recently (month or so ago).
::::::I notice several things that makes the wiki unwelcoming to new editors. (This is not about any one editor, most of these are from multiple interactions with different people.)
::::::#Deletion discussions saying something hasn't gotten edits in xx months. As a newbie, how can I counter that? (Also, this encourages long term editors to make periodic "keep alive" edits, which seem like a waste of time.)
::::::#The constant fear of the wiki getting too big/successful. (Expressed by editors in multiple ways in discussion. This one is nuanced and complex. More on this elsewhere.)
::::::#I haven't had this happen, but I expect for long time editors, having something one worked on deleted just because life happens and you hadn't got back to it in a while would be discouraging.
::::::#Salting the ground. When one goes to create an article, all you see is that something was there. Don't see what it was, or why it was deleted. If I find that an article on this was deleted, I don't bother to create an article (even if I am sure it could be good and relevant.) So if you delete things just because they are old, one has increased the friction against creation. This is part of why I tend to imagine any article is the best, most relevant version of that article it could be. If that article should stay, then I would vote for keep. If it still doesn't pass muster, then I would say out it goes.
::::::#help being gated behind Discord's user agreement. (See [[Talk:Main_Page]])
::::::Might also be a matter of working style? Some people seem to have lots of projects working on at once (office so full of papers you need a shovel to find a chair). Others may do one thing deeply at one time (clean desk with only 1 file open at a time). Both extremes can work, just how to support both - allow the cluttered desk folks to have the "richness of opportunities/mess" and the clean desk folks to have their "streamlined/sterile & lifeless" workspace. (I hope I got that even handed. No offense meant to any of the styles.)
::::::I have certainly added to articles which were stubs, some of who's relevance had been questioned. I find something that is not my main focus, but in passing it inspires hey, I can add this example, or connect that up. Some of them have inspired me to think of other things worth covering here (articles to propose, etc.). (i.e., having a wide variety of shoots really does help growth)
::::::Sorry this got so long. [[User:Drakeula|Drakeula]] ([[User talk:Drakeula|talk]]) 00:21, 12 October 2025 (UTC)
::::::One other item to the list -- having an article proposed for deletion right after I try to make it more discoverable. One of the things I do is try to see what is here, and in the process connect related things. One of reasons an article might be undeveloped is it was hard to find. If going to propose based on article age, maybe wait a bit after new links put in. [[User:Drakeula|Drakeula]] ([[User talk:Drakeula|talk]]) 00:39, 12 October 2025 (UTC)
:::::I’m fine with either approach, though for now adding a Stub template is good. I agree we should be more strict on "zombie articles" once the wiki becomes more fleshed out. [[User:Mr Pollo|Mr Pollo]] ([[User talk:Mr Pollo|talk]]) 20:42, 7 October 2025 (UTC)

==Can someone help me on the mess I made here?==

Hello, I have recently made an article on the [[Biometric Information Privacy Act]] which I have completely messed up! I saw that King Louis made a place in the [[Friend app#See also|see also of the Friend app article]] about the BIPA, so I decided to make one myself, but me not being a US citizen and not fact checking, I based it on [[wikipedia:Biometric Information Privacy Act|this BIPA from Wikipedia]] but somehow combined it with this [https://www.congress.gov/bill/116th-congress/senate-bill/4400/text| bill] (the wikipedia one was an [https://www.ilga.gov/legislation/publicacts/fulltext.asp?Name=095-0994| Illinois] one). So basically what I did was combined two articles into one and only found out when doing refs ~1 day after. Should we [[wikipedia:WP:TNT|blow it up and start over]]? Somehow save this? I need help here. [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|<i><b>AnotherConsumerRightsPerson</b></i>]] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 14:37, 7 October 2025 (UTC)

:The second bill you shared leads to a broken page. I'm gonna go ahead and make the judgment call that you can nuke it. Trying to parse through the information of which bill it belongs to might take more time than simply starting over. Also, I personally operate on the philosophy that "if I don't fix it myself, no one else will" (which isn't ''always'' true, but it's true often enough). And it seems especially true for niche pages like this one. If you want to fix it yourself, just make sure you add Illinois to your searches and make sure the relevant websites is Illinois state and not federal govt. Thanks for the attempts anyway, even if it gets nuked. We always appreciate contributors looking into policies and such, since it's rare that it happens. You're good! [[User:Beanie Bo|Beanie Bo]] ([[User talk:Beanie Bo|talk]]) 15:24, 7 October 2025 (UTC)
::Should've checked the second bill! I'll add a deletionreq now. [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|<i><b>AnotherConsumerRightsPerson</b></i>]] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 16:24, 7 October 2025 (UTC)
:::Oh, I meant erasing the content and perhaps just having a one paragraph explanation and stub! Probably shouldn't have said "nuke." I was referring to that wiki article you linked to: "With articles, this is the '''TNT tipping point''' argument: if the article's content is useless (including all the versions in history) but the title might be useful, then delete the content to help encourage a new article." Maybe I read it wrong, sorry! [[User:Beanie Bo|Beanie Bo]] ([[User talk:Beanie Bo|talk]]) 17:09, 7 October 2025 (UTC)
::::<nowiki>*facepalm*</nowiki> Thanks for removing it, I couldn’t have because abuse filter. Also, the WP:TNT article means to delete the entire thing (done via a deletion discussion, which is in Wikipedia where people vote on whether to keep or delete an article) [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|<i><b>AnotherConsumerRightsPerson</b></i>]] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 17:40, 7 October 2025 (UTC)

==Remove ‘Help About MediaWiki’ from the main menu list==

This literally comes with MediaWiki to help you learn about it while setting up and it is still in the main menu. I don’t see why we need this? [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|<i><b>AnotherConsumerRightsPerson</b></i>]] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 06:09, 8 October 2025 (UTC)

:Good catch; I know its there to help people learn how to edit and do things but after initial set up it does not serve much purpose; maybe we could change it to the editting guide or something becuase there is still usefulness in linking to a mediawiki edit guide or functional tutorial so new users can learn how to edit. [[User:Atsumari|Atsumari]] ([[User talk:Atsumari|talk]]) 15:34, 12 October 2025 (UTC)

Template:Main Page/Featured

2025-10-12T15:17:57Z

Atsumari:

{{Featured|[[CF_Moto_puts_previously_included_features_behind_paywall|CFMOTO Puts Previously Included Features Behind Paywall]]||

CFMOTO has sparked backlash after moving several previously free “intelligent services” in its Ride app like GPS tracking, diagnostics, and navigation behind a paid subscription. The change, effective August 2025, limits access for many owners unless they subscribe, prompting consumer complaints and regional exemptions. This is a clear example of consumer exploitation for financial gain by paywalling features that were once standard. The subscription fees are on top of the high prices of the items they sell (upwards of US$900 or more with taxes and fees), effectively meaning users are paying twice for vehicles they already “own” and expect to only have to pay for once but then are strong-armed into paying additional subscription fees.}}

----
''Want to suggest a featured article? Add it to the [[Template_talk:Main_Page/Featured|discussion page]].''

Template:Main Page/Featured

2025-10-12T15:14:19Z

Atsumari: link

{{Featured|CF_Moto_puts_previously_included_features_behind_paywall||

CFMOTO has sparked backlash after moving several previously free “intelligent services” in its Ride app like GPS tracking, diagnostics, and navigation behind a paid subscription. The change, effective August 2025, limits access for many owners unless they subscribe, prompting consumer complaints and regional exemptions. This is a clear example of consumer exploitation for financial gain by paywalling features that were once standard. The subscription fees are on top of the high prices of the items they sell (upwards of US$900 or more with taxes and fees), effectively meaning users are paying twice for vehicles they already “own” and expect to only have to pay for once but then are strong-armed into paying additional subscription fees.}}

----
''Want to suggest a featured article? Add it to the [[Template_talk:Main_Page/Featured|discussion page]].''

Template:Main Page/Featured

2025-10-12T15:02:06Z

Atsumari: Weekly featured article update

Template:Main Page/Featured

2025-09-26T12:00:19Z

Atsumari: call to action change

{{Featured|Microsoft||

Microsoft is one of the world's largest technology companies, founded in 1975 by Bill Gates and Paul Allen. It produces Windows, Office, Azure, Xbox, and other major products. Over the years, the company has faced repeated criticism and lawsuits for engaging in anti-competitive practices, forcing the bundling of software, and implementing consumer-unfriendly policies.

Microsoft has been fined by regulators in the U.S. and Europe for monopolistic behavior, such as tying Internet Explorer and Windows Media Player to its operating systems. More recent controversies involve restrictive licensing, subscription lock-ins, telemetry and privacy concerns, as well as the forced integration of Microsoft services, such as Edge, OneDrive, and Copilot.

Consumers have also raised issues with forced updates in Windows, the requirement of newer hardware features (such as TPM 2.0 in Windows 11), privacy-invasive features like “Recall,” and dark-pattern design that makes it difficult to avoid Microsoft accounts. Product-specific controversies include the Xbox 360's “Red Ring of Death,” DRM restrictions, and changes in Minecraft that require a Microsoft account migration.

While Microsoft continues to dominate both consumer and enterprise software markets, its practices raise ongoing concerns around competition, privacy, and consumer rights. The article about Microsoft is featured to encourage updates and improvements to the article as well as for its long-time existence on the CRW.}}

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''Want to suggest a featured article? Add it to the [[Template_talk:Main_Page/Featured|discussion page]].''

Template:Main Page/Featured

2025-09-26T11:52:20Z

Atsumari:

{{Featured|Microsoft||

Microsoft is one of the world's largest technology companies, founded in 1975 by Bill Gates and Paul Allen. It produces Windows, Office, Azure, Xbox, and other major products. Over the years, the company has faced repeated criticism and lawsuits for engaging in anti-competitive practices, forcing the bundling of software, and implementing consumer-unfriendly policies.

Microsoft has been fined by regulators in the U.S. and Europe for monopolistic behavior, such as tying Internet Explorer and Windows Media Player to its operating systems. More recent controversies involve restrictive licensing, subscription lock-ins, telemetry and privacy concerns, as well as the forced integration of Microsoft services, such as Edge, OneDrive, and Copilot.

Consumers have also raised issues with forced updates in Windows, the requirement of newer hardware features (such as TPM 2.0 in Windows 11), privacy-invasive features like “Recall,” and dark-pattern design that makes it difficult to avoid Microsoft accounts. Product-specific controversies include the Xbox 360's “Red Ring of Death,” DRM restrictions, and changes in Minecraft that require a Microsoft account migration.

While Microsoft continues to dominate both consumer and enterprise software markets, its practices raise ongoing concerns around competition, privacy, and consumer rights. The article about Microsoft is featured due to its high edit count and long time existence on the CRW.}}

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''Want to suggest a featured article? Add it to the [[Template_talk:Main_Page/Featured|discussion page]].''

Template:Main Page/Featured

2025-09-26T11:51:41Z

Atsumari:

{{Featured|Microsoft||Microsoft

Microsoft is one of the world's largest technology companies, founded in 1975 by Bill Gates and Paul Allen. It produces Windows, Office, Azure, Xbox, and other major products. Over the years, the company has faced repeated criticism and lawsuits for engaging in anti-competitive practices, forcing the bundling of software, and implementing consumer-unfriendly policies.

Microsoft has been fined by regulators in the U.S. and Europe for monopolistic behavior, such as tying Internet Explorer and Windows Media Player to its operating systems. More recent controversies involve restrictive licensing, subscription lock-ins, telemetry and privacy concerns, as well as the forced integration of Microsoft services, such as Edge, OneDrive, and Copilot.

Consumers have also raised issues with forced updates in Windows, the requirement of newer hardware features (such as TPM 2.0 in Windows 11), privacy-invasive features like “Recall,” and dark-pattern design that makes it difficult to avoid Microsoft accounts. Product-specific controversies include the Xbox 360's “Red Ring of Death,” DRM restrictions, and changes in Minecraft that require a Microsoft account migration.

While Microsoft continues to dominate both consumer and enterprise software markets, its practices raise ongoing concerns around competition, privacy, and consumer rights. The article about Microsoft is featured due to its high edit count and long time existence on the CRW.}}

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''Want to suggest a featured article? Add it to the [[Template_talk:Main_Page/Featured|discussion page]].''

Consumer Rights Wiki:Staff

2025-09-26T11:34:09Z

Atsumari: Updating staff changes

=Consumer Rights Wiki Staff=

Welcome to the official staff listing for the Consumer Rights Wiki (CRW). This page outlines the people behind the scenes who keep our project running and our content trustworthy.

==Executive Team==
''Project leadership and administrative access across all platforms.''

*'''Rossmann ([[User:Louis|Wiki]])'''
*'''Dog ([[User:Carrehec|Wiki]])'''
*'''Christoph ([[User:Christoph Howard|Wiki]])'''
*'''Keith ([[User:Keith|Wiki]])'''

==Contractors==
''Paid staff handling backend, tech, and outreach.''

*'''Unto''' ([[User:UntoK|Wiki]]) – Tech Infrastructure
*'''Jake''' ([[User:JakeL|Wiki]]) – Tech Infrastructure
*'''MountainScreamer''' – Administrative Support
*'''ssrish''' – Public Relations
*'''Atsumari''' ([[User:Atsumari|Wiki]]) ([https://discord.com/users/177159079783956492 Discord]) – Outreach/Community

==Global Administrators==
''Admins with full access to all CRW platforms.''

*'''Frank'''

==Wiki Administrators==
''Oversee wiki-specific backend and configuration issues.''

*'''mingyee ([[User:Mingyee|Wiki]])'''

==Global Moderators==
''Moderation and support across all CRW platforms.''

* None

==Discord Moderators==
''Moderate discussions and maintain a safe environment on Discord.''

*'''Stadtionalist'''
*'''xpyr'''

==Wiki Moderators==
''Ensure content quality, neutrality, and editorial standards on the wiki.''

*'''Waldo ([[User:Waldo|Wiki]])'''
*'''Shingo ([[User:Shingo|Wiki]])'''
*'''Travis ([[User:Travis|Wiki]])'''
*'''JamesTDG ([[User:JamesTDG|Wiki]])'''
*'''MrPollo ([[User:Mr Pollo|Wiki]])'''
*'''Fenriris ([[User:Fen|Wiki]])'''
*'''JackFromWisconsin ([[User:JackFromWisconsin|Wiki]])'''
*'''NK ([[User:Beanie_Bo|Wiki]])'''
*'''Theroy ([[User:Illerfish2|Wiki]])'''

==Role Definitions==

;Executives
:Project leadership team. Manage all services and hold full administrative access. Often operate behind the scenes on Discord and the wiki.

;Contractors
:Paid technical, administrative, and PR staff who assist with project operations.

;Global Admins
:Admins with oversight over all CRW services, responsible for technical and policy decisions affecting the entire platform.

;Wiki Admins
:Handle wiki-specific configuration, permissions, and backend issues.

;Global Moderators
:Support staff who help maintain order and user engagement across all platforms.

;Discord Moderators
:Moderate community conversations and enforce server rules.

;Wiki Moderators
:Focus on article content, dispute resolution, and wiki policy enforcement including neutrality, page locking, and stub improvement.

----

''Need help or want to get involved? Visit [[Consumer_Rights_Wiki:Moderator_applications]] to apply to join our moderation team or join our community via the Discord link on the sidebar to contribute to the discussion. Remember that you don’t need to become staff to create an article. Use the page to the left called “create a page“ to learn more about creating a page about your topic.''

[[Category:CRW]]

Consumer Rights Wiki talk:Moderators' noticeboard

2025-09-14T23:24:07Z

Atsumari: /* 'What CRW is not' article suggestion */ Reply

<div style="margin: {{#ifeq:{{{navbox|<noinclude>yes</noinclude>}}}|yes|2px}} 0 0.5em; padding: 0.5em; {{{style|border: 1px solid #A0A5AD;}}} {{{backgroundstyle|background-color: var(--background-color-progressive-subtle, #eaf3ff); color: inherit;}}}">
<div style="padding: 0.25em 0; text-align: center; font-size: 120%; border-radius: 3px; font-weight: bold; {{{titlestyle|background-color: var(--background-color-content-added, #aad1ff); color: inherit;}}}">Welcome — post issues of interest to Moderators</div>
*Post '''appeals''' to article notice templates (e.g. Incomplete, Stub, etc.)
*Post requests for '''moderator action''' here (e.g. blocks)
*Just need a mod? Post here or ping a mod with a question.
*Post any information or news relevant to the moderation team here.
*To request an article to be created, do not post here, try [[Article suggestions]] instead.
*Do not report technical issues here, please use the [[Consumer_Rights_Wiki_talk:Bugs|Bugs noticeboard]] instead.

<div style="padding: 0.25em 0; text-align: center; font-size: 150%; border-radius: 3px; font-weight: bold">[[Special:NewSection/Consumer Rights Wiki talk:Moderators' noticeboard|Start a new section]]</div>
</div>
<br />
{{Archives}} 
==Open tasks==

*[[:Category:Articles with deletion requests]]
*[[:Category:Articles with merge requests]]
*[[:Category:Articles marked as irrelevant]]
*[[Special:NewPages]]

==Should CRW be indexed by search engines?==

Hello, I am writing here as I found a setting in the visual editor if you click those three lines and then ‘advanced settings’, which asks if you want a page to be indexed by search engines. I am sure that this setting is set to default, which means no on all articles (unless this was covered before and i do not know about it). I think this setting could be useful sometimes, but not always, to make the wiki easier to find and not just “I watch Louis Rossman so I know about the CRW!” and also make others learn about this in general. You can probably make a discussion about this if this wasn’t talked about before. [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|AnotherConsumerRightsPerson]] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 19:27, 23 August 2025 (UTC)

:@[[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|AnotherConsumerRightsPerson]], I did a search (on Google) for "Microsoft consumer rights wiki" and this wiki did come up in the 3rd-4th result. So I am pretty sure this wiki is indexed by search engines. I'll forward this to developers just in case. '''''[[User:JackFromWisconsin|📎 JackFromWisconsin]]''''' ([[User_talk:JackFromWisconsin|talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/JackFromWisconsin|contribs]]) 02:17, 24 August 2025 (UTC)
::@[[User:JackFromWisconsin|JackFromWisconsin]] I searched this on Ecosia and I got the same thing too. [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|AnotherConsumerRightsPerson]] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 05:52, 24 August 2025 (UTC)
:It appears that only our former wiki's domain, wiki.Rossmanngroup.com, is what is currently indexed on search engines. Tested this on DuckDuckGo. Query: "Nintendo Consumer Rights Wiki" [[User:JamesTDG|JamesTDG]] ([[User talk:JamesTDG|talk]]) 12:55, 28 August 2025 (UTC)
::@[[User:JamesTDG|JamesTDG]] good point. I originally thought it wasn’t indexed because when i went to a newer incident article and tried searching it up, I couldn’t see it come up. I thought the default setting defaulted incident articles to not indexed after i realised other articles were indexed. [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|AnotherConsumerRightsPerson]] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 13:06, 28 August 2025 (UTC)

==Remove eff digital fingerprint tool from consumer privacy tools.==

These tools that supposedly tell you your fingerprint are unreliable and are reccomended against in the privacyguides.org forum. They are also not listed on privacyguides.org for this and many other reasons. I think we should try not to clutter the tools section and rely on strong resources like privacyguides.org for their suggestions. [[User:Dentist5735|Dentist5735]] ([[User talk:Dentist5735|talk]]) 00:04, 25 August 2025 (UTC)

:Also a link to the BBB? Seriously? https://money.cnn.com/2015/09/30/news/better-business-bureau/index.html [[User:Dentist5735|Dentist5735]] ([[User talk:Dentist5735|talk]]) 00:12, 25 August 2025 (UTC)
:@[[User:Dentist5735|Dentist5735]] I agree with this -- less clutter is best. I'll wait for others to chime in before making a change however. '''''[[User:JackFromWisconsin|📎 JackFromWisconsin]]''''' ([[User_talk:JackFromWisconsin|talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/JackFromWisconsin|contribs]]) 14:54, 25 August 2025 (UTC)
::Happy to remove the link to the digital fingerprinting tool as I'd tend to agree that it's handled better elsewhere. I think BBB is still probably worth linking because, while a bit crap at times, it's still a major avenue for reporting consumer issues. [[User:Keith|Keith]] ([[User talk:Keith|talk]]) 12:34, 26 August 2025 (UTC)

==Make CRW: Redirects for pages starting with Consumer Rights Wiki:==

Hello. This time I am here as I hate having to write Consumer Rights Wiki: every time I need a page in that section of the wiki. Can we please have redirects to these pages where instead of Consumer Rights Wiki: we can type CRW: sort of like how Wikipedia pages have Wikipedia: and WP: for redirects? Thanks. [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|AnotherConsumerRightsPerson]] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 11:26, 25 August 2025 (UTC)

:I can forward that to the developers. Also, you can do Project: as kind of a shortcut already. '''''[[User:JackFromWisconsin|📎 JackFromWisconsin]]''''' ([[User_talk:JackFromWisconsin|talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/JackFromWisconsin|contribs]]) 13:19, 25 August 2025 (UTC)
::From what I can tell, it's something that needs to be done on the bakend, so have passed it onto the backend folks. thanks! [[User:Keith|Keith]] ([[User talk:Keith|talk]]) 13:20, 26 August 2025 (UTC)
:::You can do name space redirects, but it’s generally easier for the tech side of people to do it. It’s kind of Janky to do it just through a manual redirect so if we’re gonna do it, it’s better for you to pass it to the tech folks. [[User:Atsumari|Atsumari]] ([[User talk:Atsumari|talk]]) 18:14, 31 August 2025 (UTC)

==Deletion request eRUC NZ 24/7 GPS car surveillance==

Hey guys, this is a serious issue. If the format or section is wrong I'm open to input on what to change or where to repost. Please don't just tear it down and bury this. It's a big deal much worse than most consumer issues.

[[NZ eRUC all-cars 24/7 GPS Surveillance proposal|https://consumerrights.wiki/NZ_eRUC_all-cars_24/7_GPS_Surveillance_proposal]] [[User:FredNZ|FredNZ]] ([[User talk:FredNZ|talk]]) 09:13, 27 August 2025 (UTC)

:Hi @[[User:FredNZ|FredNZ]], read through the [[Consumer Rights Wiki:Style guide|style guide]] and the [[Consumer Rights Wiki:Article types#Incidents|guide on incident pages]]. If you have any more questions that those pages don't answer, please ask. Thanks for making this article and helping to improve it. '''''[[User:JackFromWisconsin|📎 JackFromWisconsin]]''''' ([[User_talk:JackFromWisconsin|talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/JackFromWisconsin|contribs]]) 13:53, 27 August 2025 (UTC)

==DCS is an unnecessary disambiguation page==

At [[DCS (disambiguation)]] there is a link to dCS audio ,which doesn’t have an article about it, and Deep Cycle Systems. This means it is useless and isn’t needed. [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|AnotherConsumerRightsPerson]] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 07:02, 28 August 2025 (UTC)

:If you wanted to create some of those other pages, even if it’s just basic information, you can do so that way the disambiguation page serves more of a purpose. If you feel we need to remove the page please let us know and we can look into that and tag it properly so that people know to create articles for the pages under it or it will be deleted. [[User:Atsumari|Atsumari]] ([[User talk:Atsumari|talk]]) 18:15, 31 August 2025 (UTC)
::@[[User:Atsumari|Atsumari]] I think looking at it there’s a high chance there’ll eventually be one for it in the future. I was just asking if it is relevant but from your post i think it’s fine for it to stay. [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|AnotherConsumerRightsPerson]] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 18:17, 31 August 2025 (UTC)

==Inclusion guidelines==

It appears the Inclusion Guidelines article hasn't been updated since May. Since this is a major FAQ for a lot of contributors, as well as important guidelines for what this wiki does (and doesn't) cover, it seems pretty crucial to update this article. It would also help greatly to add it to the Create a Page, How To Help, and other contributor articles. [[User:Beanie Bo|Beanie Bo]] ([[User talk:Beanie Bo|talk]]) 12:50, 28 August 2025 (UTC)

:I will certainly make sure to get the other stuff members in on this, It is rather concerning that we haven't updated it for hot minute... [[User:JamesTDG|JamesTDG]] ([[User talk:JamesTDG|talk]]) 12:52, 28 August 2025 (UTC)

==Protect Template:Main Page/Featured==

[[Template:Main Page/Featured]] should be protected to allow only administrators. Autoconfirmed/confirmed users being able to edit this seems like a recipe for disaster, especially as only admins need to edit it. [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|AnotherConsumerRightsPerson]] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 14:17, 28 August 2025 (UTC)

:Thanks for letting us know. Should now be fixed. '''''[[User:JackFromWisconsin|📎 JackFromWisconsin]]''''' ([[User_talk:JackFromWisconsin|talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/JackFromWisconsin|contribs]]) 14:20, 28 August 2025 (UTC)

==Appeal to Piefed Page Deletion==

Someone has marked the Piefed Page for deletion. What are some improvements that could be made to the article to potentially prevent this outcome?

[[Piefed]] [[User:Fierce|Fierce]] ([[User talk:Fierce|talk]]) 05:19, 29 August 2025 (UTC)

:The easier to deal with issue mentioned in the deletion notice surrounds the fact that the article is quite short, and is not in a standard format for a product article. This is fairly manageable, as it just needs to be reformatted into something more similar to other product articles on the wiki.
:The second issue is trickier: piefed's relevance to consumer protection, and general notability, needs to be justified. This is, I suspect, the main reason why it's being considered for deletion, as the other issue would only really justify a stub notice. We do not intend to have a page for every open source solution out there, and generally the only ones which have a page are very large and relevant ones like GrapheneOS (and even then there's some debate as to whether they fit on the Wiki). I'm not sure that Piefed has really has any notable consumer-related incidents to speak of, and for the page to stay I think you'd need to clearly lay out a case (ideally on its talk page, feel free to reply here or ping me if you do this) for the page's notability. [[User:Keith|Keith]] ([[User talk:Keith|talk]]) 10:45, 29 August 2025 (UTC)

=="Despite"==

It seems the word "despite" may be interpreted as inflammatory language. It's much easier to avoid it in the text/body of an article, but with an incident article, how can it be described when the incident in question is blatantly contradictory? i.e. "GoPro advertises waterproof cameras despite design flaw."

My intent is to title the incident as specific and concise as possible, which, something like "GoPro camera waterproof issue" does not do. Same with "Signal data collection" which I had re-titled to "Signal's data collection despite privacy-focused advertising." [[User:Beanie Bo|Beanie Bo]] ([[User talk:Beanie Bo|talk]]) 18:09, 29 August 2025 (UTC)

:Having a look at the article mentioned, I think that it would be an appropriate title if fully supported in the text (the whole article is a bit dubious as it appears to be original research in the sense that the submitting user has drawn inferences from the product spec and warranty language, and there's no evidence of it being picked up by any media outlets or discussed by anyone other than the submitting user. There's also no evidence of an actual design flaw existing - we don't know that the camera is not fine down to 10m, only that the warranty does not fully cover it.)
:Answering the main topic though, if we assume that the article text did fully support the title, I think such a title would be fine. It's certainly a substantial improvement upon where it was before, and like you I can't think of another good way of wording it which is not needlessly unclear or wordy. [[User:Keith|Keith]] ([[User talk:Keith|talk]]) 09:58, 30 August 2025 (UTC)

==dark mode on a template's broken==

[[Template:Quote_box]] been a while since it's been broken on dark mode and I reported it on it's discussion page but it's still yet to be fixed on dark mode. In my experiences the problem's rampant on both mobile and desktop. The background of the template stays white but as it's dark mode the text turns white. Which makes the text invisible. [[User:SinexTitan|SinexTitan]] ([[User talk:SinexTitan|talk]]) 18:35, 29 August 2025 (UTC)

:I do see what you mean when I access it on mobile as I live in dark mode. It becomes a white box. I’ll wait for other staff to confirm this, but I believe we need to pass this on to the infrastructure team so a tech can look at it. This might also just be a situation where it’s a known bug with the software, but we will cross the bridge if we get to it. - [[User:Atsumari|Atsumari]] ([[User talk:Atsumari|talk]]) 18:19, 31 August 2025 (UTC)

==Remove the Help: redirects==

There are some help: redirects to articles that were previously moved, like [[Help:Electron]]. Can we finally remove these? [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|AnotherConsumerRightsPerson]] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 08:52, 30 August 2025 (UTC)

:Sure. Deleted the two redirects to mainspace articles. '''''[[User:JackFromWisconsin|📎 JackFromWisconsin]]''''' ([[User_talk:JackFromWisconsin|talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/JackFromWisconsin|contribs]]) 16:33, 30 August 2025 (UTC)

==Sandbox is underutilised==

The sandbox for this doesn’t show up anywhere on the interface and is never used. We either utilise it and put it on the interface or do nothing and it just sits there. [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|AnotherConsumerRightsPerson]] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 16:18, 31 August 2025 (UTC)

==Fixed the Sengled article page==

I overhauled the article [[Sengled]] a few days ago. Please remove the Sloppy AI tag and change the Incomplete tag to StubNotice (as I believe it still needs more work, but I lack the familiarity to follow through on it). — [[User:Sojourna|Sojourna]] ([[User talk:Sojourna|talk]]) 22:59, 1 September 2025 (UTC)

:@[[User:Sojourna|Sojourna]], Thanks for fixing that article. I'm keeping incomplete over stub since it's long enough to be useful, but just not complete. '''''[[User:JackFromWisconsin|📎 JackFromWisconsin]]''''' ([[User_talk:JackFromWisconsin|talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/JackFromWisconsin|contribs]]) 23:09, 1 September 2025 (UTC)

==Protect Category:Wiki Root==

I think [[:Category:Wiki root]] and other major categories should be fully protected as confirmed/autoconfirmed users can still move it. [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|AnotherConsumerRightsPerson]] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 08:02, 2 September 2025 (UTC)

:Thank you for posting this. If you find other categories that need to be protected, please let us know. I just went ahead and locked the main page for that category. - [[User:Atsumari|Atsumari]] ([[User talk:Atsumari|talk]]) 02:33, 5 September 2025 (UTC)

==Appeal Artificial intelligence deletion==

Somebody proposed deletion of the article for the reason: "Does not pertain directly to consumer rights or violations."

Further, in the discussion it was noted that the article is wordy.

I agree that the article needs significant revision. It has more detail than needed on some areas (e.g. web scraping), and totally misses other important areas.

I think it might be easier to improve the existing article, rather than having to start one from scratch.

I see AI more as a theme/background article. AI is so pervasive now, and affects people in so many ways, that I think it makes sense to have at least one article on it.

Things that I think such an article should cover include:

Data centers - environmental impacts, community impacts, energy demand and subsidy by electricity and water rate payers, and how many of these agreements are made in secret, even in nominally democratic/open governmental systems. In the US data centers are often located in marginalized communities, where people are not as organized to protect their community . (This is not exclusively an AI thing might be worth a separate article about data centers in general, covering crypto mining operations, etc.)

Control of information - Use of LLM in place of search is decimating independent information sources (taking away advertising revenue, taking away views).

Inaccuracy and inappropriate use of LLM. "Hallucinations" People not understanding what an LLM is and assuming they are more capable than they are. LLM make a poor substitute for human written product reviews. (Inaccurate, praises whatever the user wants - even products that don't exist.)

Intellectual property - piracy in training data (using stolen data), use of output.

Privacy and security - data poisoning, ease of subverting guardrails, gathering data for training, revealing prompts, law enforcement review of chatbot prompts and outputs, etc.

Concerns about possible effects on users - AI psychosis, etc.

Labor concerns - conditions of labelers/piece workers.

Liability - LLM are often inaccurate, what happens when the AI harms people (libel, suicide, etc.)

In short, I think there is a lot about LLMs and AI that is important for consumers. I hope the above gives some sense of why. However, I only just started here, and will be careful to read the policies and examples in more detail before editing articles.

I have sources for a bunch of this, will be adding them to the article talk page as time permits. Thank you. [[User:Drakeula|Drakeula]] ([[User talk:Drakeula|talk]]) 18:33, 4 September 2025 (UTC)

:Thanks for the heads up. Issue has been addressed in the Discussion page of the article. The notice has been removed [[User:Beanie Bo|Beanie Bo]] ([[User talk:Beanie Bo|talk]]) 21:16, 4 September 2025 (UTC)
:I'd caution here that I think quite a few of the practices listed probably wouldn't be within scope.
:Certainly the following:
:- Labour concerns
:- Intellectual property
:- Control of information/search blocking
:- Environmental/social impact of data centres
:Feel like they're out-of-scope as they concern relationships not relevant to the wiki, between businesses and other businesses/creatives, businesses and their employees/workers, as well as between businesses and the wider environment. To prevent scope creep, we want to keep the wiki focused on the consumer-rights issues.
:And these ones feel like 'edge cases' for relevancy - I'd appreciate some wider input:
:- Possible effects and harm on users from improper function (I'd argue that in a lot of cases there's not much to be done on this front, but I think if insufficient steps are taken to warn and safeguard users, then they could be mentioned. Certainly things like character.ai and similar do feel very exploitative, but I'm not sure I'd bundle the normal assistants under the same umbrella there)
:- Liability (I'd say this can be relevant, but the emphasis should be placed on situations where people create systems using AI that take decisions that really shouldn't be left to AI, and harm consumers that way. This is always going to be a fuzzy line, and I'd expect extensive discussion over it - it feels analogous to the question of 'at what point does someone getting injured by their own chainsaw go from being manufacturer negligence, to user error?')
:More broadly, I think that 'AI' probably isn't the best title for an article, as it's such a wide field. AI technically includes almost anything done by a computer. If we go by dictionary definitions, the computer opponents in old strategy games would count as 'AI'. LLMs, Generative image/video models, and traditional ML stuff like image recognition are all distinct enough, and are related to different issues, that it feels like they'd be better separated into their own articles, rather than bundled.
:I'll also put this on the discussion page of the article, and probably best to move further conversation there [[User:Keith|Keith]] ([[User talk:Keith|talk]]) 09:54, 8 September 2025 (UTC)
::Very fair argument. I was worried that the original article would need to be completely scrapped and redone to be even remotely relevant, but didn't wanna be heavy-handed with it. But it sounds like that's still what might be needed. [[User:Beanie Bo|Beanie Bo]] ([[User talk:Beanie Bo|talk]]) 13:41, 8 September 2025 (UTC)

==Louis Rossman and other channels video directory==

Hello, the [[Louis Rossmann - Video Directory]] article and [[Other Channels - Video Directory]] do seem completely irrelevant now but nothing has been said about this from what I can see, so I just want to double check that it is completely unused, and maybe show it is unused as there's nothing on it saying it's unused. [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|AnotherConsumerRightsPerson]] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 08:37, 7 September 2025 (UTC)

:Thanks for bringing this up. I do believe that the staff team were actually discussing this, but I don’t recall. I think you need to wait for Keith or someone more informed on this. I just wanted to make sure that you knew staff saw this. - [[User:Atsumari|Atsumari]] ([[User talk:Atsumari|talk]]) 08:49, 7 September 2025 (UTC)
::I'm pretty sure they were phased out a while ago anyway by the [[Article suggestions]] page, but just wanted to check. Thanks! [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|AnotherConsumerRightsPerson]] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 08:54, 7 September 2025 (UTC)
:::IMO I think it could be fine to have them and similar pages (I was thinking of adding one for PIRG's historical consumer-relevant reports, as they seem like a decent collection), but if it's obvious from their edit log that they're not being used, then individual pages could be scrapped. [[User:Keith|Keith]] ([[User talk:Keith|talk]]) 09:58, 8 September 2025 (UTC)

==Please whitelist Creative Commons==

Have pinged JodyBruchonFan here, who put this on the main page talk page, where i copy pasted this from.

I don't know where to ask for this (not Discord for reasons below). Could you please whitelist creativecommons.org? It is clearly not spam.

I quit using Discord the second they demanded my phone number. See also:

*https://cadence.moe/blog/2020-06-06-why-you-shouldnt-trust-discord
*https://wowana.me/blog/guess-im-done-with-discord.xht

[[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|AnotherConsumerRightsPerson]] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 14:32, 7 September 2025 (UTC)

:That's fair enough - we're aiming to gradually move all of the moderation infrastructure onto the wiki from the discord (with this page being the start of that process) so we do want to make not using the discord fully viable.
:In what context were you having issues with creativecommons? Were you trying to put a link on your user page? If that's the case, then it should work for you now, as I've confirmed you (which also means no more captchas). I'll make a note to whitelist the site though, as it's certainly worth doing.
:@[[User:JodyBruchonFan|JodyBruchonFan]] [[User:Keith|Keith]] ([[User talk:Keith|talk]]) 10:02, 8 September 2025 (UTC)

==MD Health Pathways Automatic Opt In of Taxpayers On Water / Utility Bills Without Consent / Dr. Dirk Perritt / Text a Doc==

Please delete the two earlier pages and retain only the most recent one. Thank you for your kind help. [[User:Soapboxmom|Soapboxmom]] ([[User talk:Soapboxmom|talk]]) 16:42, 8 September 2025 (UTC)

:[[MD Health Pathways automatic opt in of taxpayers on water / utility bills without consent / Dr. Dirk Perritt / Text a Doc]] I've moved the existing article here, if that helps? it might need to be moved again, as the title is quite unclear re. what the incident is about. [[User:Keith|Keith]] ([[User talk:Keith|talk]]) 16:49, 8 September 2025 (UTC)

==Quote box is awful on dark mode==
Have removed this as this was talked about before on here. [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|AnotherConsumerRightsPerson]] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 20:13, 12 September 2025 (UTC)

==A template for move suggestion?==

I've raised it on the talk page for [[Denuvo Anti-Tamper]], but there is no notice template (to my knowledge) to help bring attention to the topic. — [[User:Sojourna|Sojourna]] ([[User talk:Sojourna|talk]]) 23:34, 12 September 2025 (UTC)

:Not a mod, but I am pretty sure [[Template:MergeRequest]] will do with a link to talk page discussing both of them being merged into that one article. [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|AnotherConsumerRightsPerson]] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 08:43, 13 September 2025 (UTC)

=='What CRW is not' article suggestion==

Hi, I don't think this fits into the [[Article suggestions]] page so I am bringing the idea up here. I think that an article specifically for what the Consumer Rights Wiki is not would be good in the help/consumer rights wiki namespace (probably help:) as there are too many articles of yelp reviews with no references or other bad articles published. To mitigate it even more I think it should be even more obvious in the article creation process. It just annoys me that so many articles immediately get deletion requests as they are just messed up so badly. [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|AnotherConsumerRightsPerson]] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 10:06, 13 September 2025 (UTC)

:That's technically what the [[Consumer Rights Wiki:Inclusion guidelines|Inclusion Guidelines]] article is for, but that needs to be updated. We're working on it and also working on revisions to the [[Consumer Rights Wiki:Article types|Article Types]] page as well. It's taking some time since this directly relates to the direction and scope of the wiki as a whole, and it requires significant input from @[[User:Keith|Keith]] and other higher level moderators/admins. [[User:Beanie Bo|Beanie Bo]] ([[User talk:Beanie Bo|talk]]) 16:10, 13 September 2025 (UTC)
::I knew something similar was made before, I just couldn’t put my finger on it! [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|AnotherConsumerRightsPerson]] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 16:20, 13 September 2025 (UTC)
:::If you feel we should add it somewhere more prominent please feel free to suggest where and we can look into getting it added. - [[User:Atsumari|Atsumari]] ([[User talk:Atsumari|talk]]) 23:24, 14 September 2025 (UTC)

Consumer Rights Wiki talk:Moderators' noticeboard

2025-09-07T08:49:46Z

Atsumari: /* Louis Rossman and other channels video directory */ Reply

User:Atsumari

2025-09-06T22:25:21Z

Atsumari:

{{Usermod}}{{clear}}

I’m Atsumari; a community health educator, peer advocate, website technician, and moderator for both this wiki as well as the CRW Discord. I primarily focus on technical issues, policies and general ease of use things on the wiki. On Discord, I handle general community organizing, admin tasks and some more technical Discord-specific stuff. If you need assistance, please feel free to reach out to me on Discord; my username there is atsumari.

For more information about me feel free to see my Linktree: https://linktr.ee/atsumari.

Consumer Rights Wiki:Staff

2025-09-06T03:27:49Z

Atsumari: /* Wiki Moderators */

=Consumer Rights Wiki Staff=

Welcome to the official staff listing for the Consumer Rights Wiki (CRW). This page outlines the people behind the scenes who keep our project running and our content trustworthy.

==Executive Team==
''Project leadership and administrative access across all platforms.''

*'''Rossmann ([[User:Louis|Wiki]])'''
*'''Dog ([[User:Carrehec|Wiki]])'''
*'''Christoph ([[User:Christoph Howard|Wiki]])'''
*'''Keith ([[User:Keith|Wiki]])'''

==Contractors==
''Paid staff handling backend, tech, and outreach.''

*'''Unto''' ([[User:UntoK|Wiki]]) – Tech Infrastructure
*'''Jake''' ([[User:JakeL|Wiki]]) – Tech Infrastructure
*'''MountainScreamer''' – Administrative Support
*'''ssrish''' – Public Relations

==Global Administrators==
''Admins with full access to all CRW platforms.''

*'''kostas ([[User:Kostas|Wiki]])'''
*'''Frank'''

==Wiki Administrators==
''Oversee wiki-specific backend and configuration issues.''

*'''mingyee ([[User:Mingyee|Wiki]])'''

==Global Moderators==
''Moderation and support across all CRW platforms.''

*'''Atsumari ([[User:Atsumari|Wiki]]) ([https://discord.com/users/177159079783956492 Discord]) - Community Manager'''

==Discord Moderators==
''Moderate discussions and maintain a safe environment on Discord.''

*'''Stadtionalist'''
*'''xpyr'''

==Wiki Moderators==
''Ensure content quality, neutrality, and editorial standards on the wiki.''

*'''Waldo ([[User:Waldo|Wiki]])'''
*'''Shingo ([[User:Shingo|Wiki]])'''
*'''Travis ([[User:Travis|Wiki]])'''
*'''JamesTDG ([[User:JamesTDG|Wiki]])'''
*'''MrPollo ([[User:Mr Pollo|Wiki]])'''
*'''Fenriris ([[User:Fen|Wiki]])'''
*'''JackFromWisconsin ([[User:JackFromWisconsin|Wiki]])'''
*'''NK ([[User:Beanie_Bo|Wiki]])'''
*'''Theroy ([[User:Illerfish2|Wiki]])'''

==Role Definitions==

;Executives
:Project leadership team. Manage all services and hold full administrative access. Often operate behind the scenes on Discord and the wiki.

;Contractors
:Paid technical, administrative, and PR staff who assist with project operations.

;Global Admins
:Admins with oversight over all CRW services, responsible for technical and policy decisions affecting the entire platform.

;Wiki Admins
:Handle wiki-specific configuration, permissions, and backend issues.

;Global Moderators
:Support staff who help maintain order and user engagement across all platforms.

;Discord Moderators
:Moderate community conversations and enforce server rules.

;Wiki Moderators
:Focus on article content, dispute resolution, and wiki policy enforcement including neutrality, page locking, and stub improvement.

----

''Need help or want to get involved? Visit [[Consumer_Rights_Wiki:Moderator_applications]] to apply to join our moderation team or join our community via the Discord link on the sidebar to contribute to the discussion. Remember that you don’t need to become staff to create an article. Use the page to the left called “create a page“ to learn more about creating a page about your topic.''

[[Category:CRW]]

Consumer Rights Wiki talk:Moderators' noticeboard

2025-09-05T02:33:25Z

Atsumari: /* Protect Category:Wiki Root */ Reply

Consumer Rights Wiki:Staff

2025-08-31T21:06:15Z

Atsumari:

=Consumer Rights Wiki Staff=

Welcome to the official staff listing for the Consumer Rights Wiki (CRW). This page outlines the people behind the scenes who keep our project running and our content trustworthy.

==Executive Team==
''Project leadership and administrative access across all platforms.''

*'''Rossmann ([[User:Louis|Wiki]])'''
*'''Dog ([[User:Carrehec|Wiki]])'''
*'''Christoph ([[User:Christoph Howard|Wiki]])'''
*'''Keith ([[User:Keith|Wiki]])'''

==Contractors==
''Paid staff handling backend, tech, and outreach.''

*'''Unto''' ([[User:UntoK|Wiki]]) – Tech Infrastructure
*'''Jake''' ([[User:JakeL|Wiki]]) – Tech Infrastructure
*'''MountainScreamer''' – Administrative Support
*'''ssrish''' – Public Relations

==Global Administrators==
''Admins with full access to all CRW platforms.''

*'''kostas ([[User:Kostas|Wiki]])'''
*'''Frank'''

==Wiki Administrators==
''Oversee wiki-specific backend and configuration issues.''

*'''mingyee ([[User:Mingyee|Wiki]])'''

==Global Moderators==
''Moderation and support across all CRW platforms.''

*'''Atsumari ([[User:Atsumari|Wiki]]) ([https://discord.com/users/177159079783956492 Discord]) - Community Manager'''

==Discord Moderators==
''Moderate discussions and maintain a safe environment on Discord.''

*'''Stadtionalist'''
*'''xpyr'''

==Wiki Moderators==
''Ensure content quality, neutrality, and editorial standards on the wiki.''

*'''Waldo ([[User:Waldo|Wiki]])'''
*'''Shingo ([[User:Shingo|Wiki]])'''
*'''Travis ([[User:Travis|Wiki]])'''
*'''JamesTDG ([[User:JamesTDG|Wiki]])'''
*'''MrPollo ([[User:Mr Pollo|Wiki]])'''
*'''Fenriris ([[User:Fen|Wiki]])'''
*'''JackFromWisconsin([[User:JackFromWisconsin|Wiki]])'''

==Role Definitions==

;Executives
:Project leadership team. Manage all services and hold full administrative access. Often operate behind the scenes on Discord and the wiki.

;Contractors
:Paid technical, administrative, and PR staff who assist with project operations.

;Global Admins
:Admins with oversight over all CRW services, responsible for technical and policy decisions affecting the entire platform.

;Wiki Admins
:Handle wiki-specific configuration, permissions, and backend issues.

;Global Moderators
:Support staff who help maintain order and user engagement across all platforms.

;Discord Moderators
:Moderate community conversations and enforce server rules.

;Wiki Moderators
:Focus on article content, dispute resolution, and wiki policy enforcement including neutrality, page locking, and stub improvement.

----

''Need help or want to get involved? Visit [[Consumer_Rights_Wiki:Moderator_applications]] to apply to join our moderation team or join our community via the Discord link on the sidebar to contribute to the discussion. Remember that you don’t need to become staff to create an article. Use the page to the left called “create a page“ to learn more about creating a page about your topic.''

[[Category:CRW]]

Consumer Rights Wiki talk:Moderators' noticeboard

2025-08-31T18:19:13Z

Atsumari: /* dark mode on a template's broken */ Reply

Consumer Rights Wiki talk:Moderators' noticeboard

2025-08-31T18:15:38Z

Atsumari: /* DCS is an unnecessary disambiguation page */ Reply

Consumer Rights Wiki talk:Moderators' noticeboard

2025-08-31T18:14:12Z

Atsumari: /* Make CRW: Redirects for pages starting with Consumer Rights Wiki: */ Reply