Consumer Rights Wiki - User contributions [en]

User:CorpoBlight/Product quality - and manufacturer incentives

2025-11-02T05:38:40Z

CorpoBlight:

{{Userspace draft|date=October 2025}}

TBD: clarify whether this sort of thing is considered in-scope for this wiki. If not, maybe the mods know of a good alternative?

==Product quality - and manufacturer incentives==
Aside from the problem of corporations abusing their customers after the sale, there are other problems such as terrible product quality. Often it's very difficult for the prospective customer to determine whether a product costs more because it will last longer, or whether it's simply padding the manufacturer's bottom line. One thing that could potentially help here is a mandatory "Product Facts" label, not unlike the label found on foods in the US.

===Drawbacks===
It's argued by some that increasing the information given to consumers can, in cases, actually be detrimental to those consumers. Consider, for example, the fallacious argument that "if you can't pronounce it, it's not healthy" when it comes to ingredients. By that logic, I could create a new name for an ingredient, and that would cause it to become healthy - or vice versa. The "information can be harmful" argument would thus be that showing the ingredients ''can'' be harmful since it may influence the consumer away from something perfectly harmless.

Perhaps this is a trivial concern, but it seems prudent to try to avoid giving manufacturers the opportunity to compete through deception.

I've heard this argument promoted (for medical products) by Dr Stephen Novella, long ago on the Skeptics Guide to the Universe podcast. Of course, he explains it far more eloquently than I can.

===Items for a "product facts" label===
What sort of things could/should appear on such a label? Some data points may not make sense for some types/categories of product, such as consumables. Likewise, if a data point is too difficult for the manufacturer to determine or something they think is a trade secret, they'll make something up or sue to block the law.

====Product quality / expected product lifetime====
Before purchasing, I'd love to know how long my product should last (provided I take reasonably good care of it). But how do we turn this into a metric that isn't difficult for the manufacturer and that they can't deliberately distort?

Requiring them to state the product's expected lifetime (e.g. 5 years) could be difficult to compute and easy to distort. How do you prove that they knew material X would disintegrate rapidly?

Another measure that seems more reliable to me would be a statement about how an additional investment would affect the product's quality. If the following wording were required, the wiggle room seems very limited:<blockquote>An additional investment of 25%, '''prudently applied''', would result in a product that lasted {''number''} times longer.</blockquote>The "prudently applied" bit is load bearing: it applies to the manufacturing process (materials, manufacturing employees, QA, NRE, etc), ''not'' to things like executive compensation, stock dividends, advertising, or funding a high-pressure sales team.

If the number is high, this tells the consumer that it's a high-margin product and they get less product for their money, while if it's low it tells the consumer that most of their money is going towards the actual product. The hope is that consumers armed with this knowledge will be able to choose quality products, providing motivation for companies to produce higher quality / longer lasting products.

====Wage inequality====
This one is more about social ills and corporate greed than something directly impacting the customer's experience with the product.

Corporations like to say that they must pay their execs the way they do to retain them, because "everyone else is doing it". Would they continue to do so if it impacted their bottom line? Would the court of public opinion impact their bottom line if consumers could easily find the numbers at the time of purchase? How forgiving will the court of public opinion be if gender-based wage inequality gaps are made public?<blockquote>Our highest-paid executive makes {''number''} times as much per {''period''} as the lowest paid person in our facilities, including contractors but excluding unpaid interns, of which our workforce includes { ''percent'' | ''number'' }. The largest gender inequality gap we have is {''percent''}, for {''role''}.</blockquote>Contractors (temp employees, lawn care, janitorial, etc) "in our facilities" are included so that a company can't improve this statistic by contracting for the low-wage work.

TBD: what about companies which contract with a third party to do manufacturing or other work that is not "in our facilities"? E.g. A brand where most or all design and/or manufacturing is contracted out to companies in regions with weak pollution/safety/labor laws.

====Reliance on online connectivity / corporate servers====
Will the product function if not connected to the internet? How much functionality is lost without a connection? Will the product continue to function if the company goes under or shuts down its servers? e.g for a "smart" lock, will I be locked out of my house if my router crashes?

====Commitment to not remove features====
Does the manufacturer commit to not removing any features that are present (or advertised) at the time of purchase? (Exception: ''temporarily'' disabling a feature if a critical security vulnerability is found.)

Do they commit to never changing any of the features present (or advertised) at purchase to features that must be paid for?

The "as advertised" wording is to close the loophole of advertising a feature as "coming soon" so they can retain more control over that feature.

This also applies to completely disabling the app/device.

Example: Printer manufacturer pushes firmware update that causes it to fail to work with aftermarket ink refills.

Example: 3d-printer manufacturer pushes firmware that bricks printer if aftermarket filament is used.

====Commitment to product security====
If the product includes network connectivity, does the company certify that reasonable effort has been put into ensuring that the product is free from security defects that would impact the customer? e.g. backdoors, default passwords common to all devices (as opposed to a randomized password on the underside of the device), other common vulnerabilities.

====Commitment to provide security updates====
Does the manufacturer commit to providing pure security updates for the lifetime of the product? Through what date will such updates be provided? (In this context, a "pure security update" is one which _only_ fixes security issues and does not alter product functionality for better or worse.)

====Commitment to allow product maintenance in the event the manufacturer is unable====
If the the product line is shut down, or the manufacturer goes bankrupt or is otherwise incapacitated, do they commit to granting customers the right to documentation, source code, and other design documents necessary to

*repair and maintain the product
*create and maintain any online infrastructure that the product depends on or is enhanced by

====Commitment to responsibly retain and dispose of consumer data====
Does the company commit that any consumer data that happens to be collected will remain protected in the event that the company goes bankrupt or is sold? Does the company commit that it will destroy the consumer data rather than allowing it to fall into the hands of an unscrupulous new owner? How much money will be set aside to ensure this destruction? For how long will the company retain consumer data after its collection?

====Responsible use of LLMs and the like====
Currently, these tools frequently create answers that aren't obviously wrong but also are not right. This wrong information is, at best, frustrating to the consumer, and is reasonably likely to be harmful. Does the company commit to reviewing llm-generated data before customers are exposed to it, and to label it so that customers can easily identify llm-generated sections?

====Advertising and revenue====
For hardware that allows installation of additional apps, the below questions apply ''only'' to its "base" state (i.e. no additional applications installed).

For everything else, these apply at all times (3rd-party content (including websites) which the company has no control over, is excluded).

Does it download and display advertisements? Is the user forced to view these advertisements (i.e. no option to permanently disable ads)? Is the user allowed to mute ad audio? If ads are present, what is the use-to-ads ratio? I.e. 90 seconds of ads per 10 minutes use, 30 seconds of ads per level attempt. Is the user ever forced to click through ads?

Are purchases possible through the product? How much is the average user expected to pay per {time spent using product|calendar time period}?

====Unskippable cut scenes====
Applicable to games, digital media: are there sections that cannot be skipped?<blockquote>Estimated play time: {''duration''}. Unskippable cut scene time on first playthrough: {''duration''}. Unskippable cut scene time on additional playthroughs: {''duration''}.</blockquote>

====UI Responsiveness over time====
For hardware (smart TV's, smartphones, smart appliances, etc): Does the company commit to using hardware powerful enough that the UI will remain responsive even after several years of security and feature updates? Does the company commit to using UI responsivity analytics tools internally, and making such tools freely available to 3rd party app developers for the platform (if any)?

For apps, does the developer commit to using the platform's UI responsivity analytics tools?

Example: a "smart" tv that can take multiple seconds to respond to presses of the volume key on the remote.

====Upgradability====
For hardware with smart features, where the smarts are a physically small part of the device: does the company include a standard upgrade port so that the smarts may be overridden with a more capable unit 5-10 years down the line?<blockquote>where the smarts are a physically small part of the device</blockquote>e.g. does not apply to smartphones, digital picture frames, thermostats, other small devices where it isn't feasible to add an unobtrusive, yet reasonably sized, upgrade cavity.

Note that this "standard upgrade port" doesn't currently exist AFAIK. I envision something with a form factor like that of the chromecast or an android tv dongle, and probably available in a few different capability classes. Your range, refrigerator, and water heater would likely work with the lowest class - they don't need fast streaming or 8k graphics. Replacing the smarts in a TV ''would'' require a dongle supporting streaming, graphics, and applications. IVI (In-vehicle infotainment) systems would be at the same level as a smart tv or possibly higher.

Along with defining the capability classes, one or more connector (and pinout) would need defined. Due to operating conditions, IVI would likely require a different connector or at least a higher spec (vibration, heat, etc). One or more form factors would also need defined, to ensure that compliant products can physically fit together.

====Date code format====
If the company fails to use a standard date code (YYWW (aka EIA), MM-DD-YYYY) they must document the date code here.

==== Recyclability ====
Another that's more of a social ill than something directly impacting customer experience.

Manufacturers like to claim things are recyclable even when there's very little chance of it happening. That labelling only accounts for the material that made it into the finished product - but what about things the consumer ''doesn't'' see? Shipping materials discarded by the retailer, waste in the manufacturing process, and so on.<blockquote>This product results in {''mass''|''volume''} waste that, as of the date of manufacture, cannot be recycled or is unlikely to be recycled.</blockquote>

==== Corporate Longevity ====
Is the company plowing all profits into its stocks - keeping wall street happy - or is it investing in its own future? How much are consumers paying for the privilege of experiencing the company's advertising campaign which tells them they can't live without the product?<blockquote>Historically, {''percent''} of our profit has gone to stockholders, {''percent''} to marketing/advertising/sales, and {''percent''} is reinvested in R&D. {''Optional discussion of expected percents over next 12 months.''}</blockquote>

User:CorpoBlight/Product quality - and manufacturer incentives

2025-10-31T21:17:24Z

CorpoBlight: more

{{Userspace draft|date=October 2025}}

TBD: clarify whether this sort of thing is considered in-scope for this wiki. If not, maybe the mods know of a good alternative?

==Product quality - and manufacturer incentives==
Aside from the problem of corporations abusing their customers after the sale, there are other problems such as terrible product quality. Often it's very difficult for the prospective customer to determine whether a product costs more because it will last longer, or whether it's simply padding the manufacturer's bottom line. One thing that could potentially help here is a mandatory "Product Facts" label, not unlike the label found on foods in the US.

===Drawbacks===
It's argued by some that increasing the information given to consumers can, in cases, actually be detrimental to those consumers. Consider, for example, the fallacious argument that "if you can't pronounce it, it's not healthy" when it comes to ingredients. By that logic, I could create a new name for an ingredient, and that would cause it to become healthy - or vice versa. The "information can be harmful" argument would thus be that showing the ingredients ''can'' be harmful since it may influence the consumer away from something perfectly harmless.

Perhaps this is a trivial concern, but it seems prudent to try to avoid giving manufacturers the opportunity to compete through deception.

I've heard this argument promoted (for medical products) by Dr Stephen Novella, long ago on the Skeptics Guide to the Universe podcast. Of course, he explains it far more eloquently than I can.

===Items for a "product facts" label===
What sort of things could/should appear on such a label? Some data points may not make sense for some types/categories of product, such as consumables. Likewise, if a data point is too difficult for the manufacturer to determine or something they think is a trade secret, they'll make something up or sue to block the law.

====Product quality / expected product lifetime====
Before purchasing, I'd love to know how long my product should last (provided I take reasonably good care of it). But how do we turn this into a metric that isn't difficult for the manufacturer and that they can't deliberately distort?

Requiring them to state the product's expected lifetime (e.g. 5 years) could be difficult to compute and easy to distort. How do you prove that they knew material X would disintegrate rapidly?

Another measure that seems more reliable to me would be a statement about how an additional investment would affect the product's quality. If the following wording were required, the wiggle room seems very limited:<blockquote>An additional investment of 25%, '''prudently applied''', would result in a product that lasted {''number''} times longer.</blockquote>The "prudently applied" bit is load bearing: it applies to the manufacturing process (materials, manufacturing employees, QA, NRE, etc), ''not'' to things like executive compensation, stock dividends, advertising, or funding a high-pressure sales team.

If the number is high, this tells the consumer that it's a high-margin product and they get less product for their money, while if it's low it tells the consumer that most of their money is going towards the actual product. The hope is that consumers armed with this knowledge will be able to choose quality products, providing motivation for companies to produce higher quality / longer lasting products.

====Wage inequality====
This one is more about social ills and corporate greed than something directly impacting the customer's experience with the product.

Corporations like to say that they must pay their execs the way they do to retain them, because "everyone else is doing it". Would they continue to do so if it impacted their bottom line? Would the court of public opinion impact their bottom line if consumers could easily find the numbers at the time of purchase? How forgiving will the court of public opinion be if gender-based wage inequality gaps are made public?<blockquote>Our highest-paid executive makes {''number''} times as much per {''period''} as the lowest paid person in our facilities, including contractors but excluding unpaid interns, of which our workforce includes { ''percent'' | ''number'' }. The largest gender inequality gap we have is {''percent''}, for {''role''}.</blockquote>Contractors (temp employees, lawn care, janitorial, etc) "in our facilities" are included so that a company can't improve this statistic by contracting for the low-wage work.

TBD: what about companies which contract with a third party to do manufacturing or other work that is not "in our facilities"? E.g. A brand where most or all design and/or manufacturing is contracted out to companies in regions with weak pollution/safety/labor laws.

====Reliance on online connectivity / corporate servers====
Will the product function if not connected to the internet? How much functionality is lost without a connection? Will the product continue to function if the company goes under or shuts down its servers? e.g for a "smart" lock, will I be locked out of my house if my router crashes?

====Commitment to not remove features====
Does the manufacturer commit to not removing any features that are present (or advertised) at the time of purchase? (Exception: ''temporarily'' disabling a feature if a critical security vulnerability is found.)

Do they commit to never changing any of the features present (or advertised) at purchase to features that must be paid for?

The "as advertised" wording is to close the loophole of advertising a feature as "coming soon" so they can retain more control over that feature.

This also applies to completely disabling the app/device.

Example: Printer manufacturer pushes firmware update that causes it to fail to work with aftermarket ink refills.

Example: 3d-printer manufacturer pushes firmware that bricks printer if aftermarket filament is used.

====Commitment to product security====
If the product includes network connectivity, does the company certify that reasonable effort has been put into ensuring that the product is free from security defects that would impact the customer? e.g. backdoors, default passwords common to all devices (as opposed to a randomized password on the underside of the device), other common vulnerabilities.

====Commitment to provide security updates====
Does the manufacturer commit to providing pure security updates for the lifetime of the product? Through what date will such updates be provided? (In this context, a "pure security update" is one which _only_ fixes security issues and does not alter product functionality for better or worse.)

====Commitment to allow product maintenance in the event the manufacturer is unable====
If the the product line is shut down, or the manufacturer goes bankrupt or is otherwise incapacitated, do they commit to granting customers the right to documentation, source code, and other design documents necessary to

*repair and maintain the product
*create and maintain any online infrastructure that the product depends on or is enhanced by

====Commitment to responsibly retain and dispose of consumer data====
Does the company commit that any consumer data that happens to be collected will remain protected in the event that the company goes bankrupt or is sold? Does the company commit that it will destroy the consumer data rather than allowing it to fall into the hands of an unscrupulous new owner? How much money will be set aside to ensure this destruction? For how long will the company retain consumer data after its collection?

====Responsible use of LLMs and the like====
Currently, these tools frequently create answers that aren't obviously wrong but also are not right. This wrong information is, at best, frustrating to the consumer, and is reasonably likely to be harmful. Does the company commit to reviewing llm-generated data before customers are exposed to it, and to label it so that customers can easily identify llm-generated sections?

====Advertising and revenue====
For hardware that allows installation of additional apps, the below questions apply ''only'' to its "base" state (i.e. no additional applications installed).

For everything else, these apply at all times (3rd-party content (including websites) which the company has no control over, is excluded).

Does it download and display advertisements? Is the user forced to view these advertisements (i.e. no option to permanently disable ads)? Is the user allowed to mute ad audio? If ads are present, what is the use-to-ads ratio? I.e. 90 seconds of ads per 10 minutes use, 30 seconds of ads per level attempt. Is the user ever forced to click through ads?

Are purchases possible through the product? How much is the average user expected to pay per {time spent using product|calendar time period}?

==== Unskippable cut scenes ====
Applicable to games, digital media: are there sections that cannot be skipped?<blockquote>Estimated play time: {''duration''}. Unskippable cut scene time on first playthrough: {''duration''}. Unskippable cut scene time on additional playthroughs: {''duration''}.</blockquote>

====UI Responsiveness over time====
For hardware (smart TV's, smartphones, smart appliances, etc): Does the company commit to using hardware powerful enough that the UI will remain responsive even after several years of security and feature updates? Does the company commit to using UI responsivity analytics tools internally, and making such tools freely available to 3rd party app developers for the platform (if any)?

For apps, does the developer commit to using the platform's UI responsivity analytics tools?

Example: a "smart" tv that can take multiple seconds to respond to presses of the volume key on the remote.

====Upgradability====
For hardware with smart features, where the smarts are a physically small part of the device: does the company include a standard upgrade port so that the smarts may be overridden with a more capable unit 5-10 years down the line?<blockquote>where the smarts are a physically small part of the device</blockquote>e.g. does not apply to smartphones, digital picture frames, thermostats, other small devices where it isn't feasible to add an unobtrusive, yet reasonably sized, upgrade cavity.

Note that this "standard upgrade port" doesn't currently exist AFAIK. I envision something with a form factor like that of the chromecast or an android tv dongle, and probably available in a few different capability classes. Your range, refrigerator, and water heater would likely work with the lowest class - they don't need fast streaming or 8k graphics. Replacing the smarts in a TV ''would'' require a dongle supporting streaming, graphics, and applications. IVI (In-vehicle infotainment) systems would be at the same level as a smart tv or possibly higher.

Along with defining the capability classes, one or more connector (and pinout) would need defined. Due to operating conditions, IVI would likely require a different connector or at least a higher spec (vibration, heat, etc). One or more form factors would also need defined, to ensure that compliant products can physically fit together.

==== Date code format ====
If the company fails to use a standard date code (YYWW (aka EIA), MM-DD-YYYY) they must document the date code here.

User:CorpoBlight/Product quality - and manufacturer incentives

2025-10-24T20:29:40Z

CorpoBlight:

{{Userspace draft|date=October 2025}}

TBD: clarify whether this sort of thing is considered in-scope for this wiki. If not, maybe the mods know of a good alternative?

==Product quality - and manufacturer incentives==
Aside from the problem of corporations abusing their customers after the sale, there are other problems such as terrible product quality. Often it's very difficult for the prospective customer to determine whether a product costs more because it will last longer, or whether it's simply padding the manufacturer's bottom line. One thing that could potentially help here is a mandatory "Product Facts" label, not unlike the label found on foods in the US.

===Drawbacks===
It's argued by some that increasing the information given to consumers can, in cases, actually be detrimental to those consumers. Consider, for example, the fallacious argument that "if you can't pronounce it, it's not healthy" when it comes to ingredients. By that logic, I could create a new name for an ingredient, and that would cause it to become healthy - or vice versa. The "information can be harmful" argument would thus be that showing the ingredients ''can'' be harmful since it may influence the consumer away from something perfectly harmless.

Perhaps this is a trivial concern, but it seems prudent to try to avoid giving manufacturers the opportunity to compete through deception.

I've heard this argument promoted (for medical products) by Dr Stephen Novella, long ago on the Skeptics Guide to the Universe podcast. Of course, he explains it far more eloquently than I can.

===Items for a "product facts" label===
What sort of things could/should appear on such a label? Some data points may not make sense for some types/categories of product, such as consumables. Likewise, if a data point is too difficult for the manufacturer to determine or something they think is a trade secret, they'll make something up or sue to block the law.

====Product quality / expected product lifetime====
Before purchasing, I'd love to know how long my product should last (provided I take reasonably good care of it). But how do we turn this into a metric that isn't difficult for the manufacturer and that they can't deliberately distort?

Requiring them to state the product's expected lifetime (e.g. 5 years) could be difficult to compute and easy to distort. How do you prove that they knew material X would disintegrate rapidly?

Another measure that seems more reliable to me would be a statement about how an additional investment would affect the product's quality. If the following wording were required, the wiggle room seems very limited:<blockquote>An additional investment of 25%, '''prudently applied''', would result in a product that lasted {''number''} times longer.</blockquote>The "prudently applied" bit is load bearing: it applies to the manufacturing process (materials, manufacturing employees, QA, NRE, etc), ''not'' to things like executive compensation, stock dividends, advertising, or funding a high-pressure sales team.

If the number is high, this tells the consumer that it's a high-margin product and they get less product for their money, while if it's low it tells the consumer that most of their money is going towards the actual product. The hope is that consumers armed with this knowledge will be able to choose quality products, providing motivation for companies to produce higher quality / longer lasting products.

====Wage inequality====
This one is more about social ills and corporate greed than something directly impacting the customer's experience with the product.

Corporations like to say that they must pay their execs the way they do to retain them, because "everyone else is doing it". Would they continue to do so if it impacted their bottom line? Would the court of public opinion impact their bottom line if consumers could easily find the numbers at the time of purchase? How forgiving will the court of public opinion be if gender-based wage inequality gaps are made public?<blockquote>Our highest-paid executive makes {''number''} times as much per {''period''} as the lowest paid person in our facilities, including contractors but excluding unpaid interns, of which our workforce includes { ''percent'' | ''number'' }. The largest gender inequality gap we have is {''percent''}, for {''role''}.</blockquote>Contractors (temp employees, lawn care, janitorial, etc) "in our facilities" are included so that a company can't improve this statistic by contracting for the low-wage work.

TBD: what about companies which contract with a third party to do manufacturing or other work that is not "in our facilities"? E.g. A brand where most or all design and/or manufacturing is contracted out to companies in regions with weak pollution/safety/labor laws.

====Reliance on online connectivity / corporate servers====
Will the product function if not connected to the internet? How much functionality is lost without a connection? Will the product continue to function if the company goes under or shuts down its servers? e.g for a "smart" lock, will I be locked out of my house if my router crashes?

====Commitment to not remove features====
Does the manufacturer commit to not removing any features that are present (or advertised) at the time of purchase? (Exception: ''temporarily'' disabling a feature if a critical security vulnerability is found.)

Do they commit to never changing any of the features present (or advertised) at purchase to features that must be paid for?

The "as advertised" wording is to close the loophole of advertising a feature as "coming soon" so they can retain more control over that feature.

This also applies to completely disabling the app/device.

Example: Printer manufacturer pushes firmware update that causes it to fail to work with aftermarket ink refills.

Example: 3d-printer manufacturer pushes firmware that bricks printer if aftermarket filament is used.

====Commitment to product security====
If the product includes network connectivity, does the company certify that reasonable effort has been put into ensuring that the product is free from security defects that would impact the customer? e.g. backdoors, default passwords common to all devices (as opposed to a randomized password on the underside of the device), other common vulnerabilities.

====Commitment to provide security updates====
Does the manufacturer commit to providing pure security updates for the lifetime of the product? Through what date will such updates be provided? (In this context, a "pure security update" is one which _only_ fixes security issues and does not alter product functionality for better or worse.)

====Commitment to allow product maintenance in the event the manufacturer is unable====
If the the product line is shut down, or the manufacturer goes bankrupt or is otherwise incapacitated, do they commit to granting customers the right to documentation, source code, and other design documents necessary to

*repair and maintain the product
*create and maintain any online infrastructure that the product depends on or is enhanced by

====Commitment to responsibly retain and dispose of consumer data====
Does the company commit that any consumer data that happens to be collected will remain protected in the event that the company goes bankrupt or is sold? Does the company commit that it will destroy the consumer data rather than allowing it to fall into the hands of an unscrupulous new owner? How much money will be set aside to ensure this destruction? For how long will the company retain consumer data after its collection?

====Responsible use of LLMs and the like====
Currently, these tools frequently create answers that aren't obviously wrong but also are not right. This wrong information is, at best, frustrating to the consumer, and is reasonably likely to be harmful. Does the company commit to reviewing llm-generated data before customers are exposed to it, and to label it so that customers can easily identify llm-generated sections?

====Advertising and revenue====
For hardware that allows installation of additional apps, the below questions apply ''only'' to its "base" state (i.e. no additional applications installed).

For everything else, these apply at all times (3rd-party content (such as websites), which the company has no control over, is excluded).

Does it download and display advertisements? Is the user forced to view these advertisements (i.e. no option to permanently disable ads)? Is the user allowed to mute ad audio? If ads are present, what is the use-to-ads ratio? I.e. 90 seconds of ads per 10 minutes use, 30 seconds of ads per level attempt. Is the user ever forced to click through ads?

Are purchases possible through the product? How much is the average user expected to pay per {time spent using product|calendar time period}?

====UI Responsiveness over time====
For hardware (smart TV's, smartphones, smart appliances, etc): Does the company commit to using hardware powerful enough that the UI will remain responsive even after several years of security and feature updates? Does the company commit to using UI responsivity analytics tools internally, and making such tools freely available to 3rd party app developers for the platform (if any)?

For apps, does the developer commit to using the platform's UI responsivity analytics tools?

Example: a "smart" tv that can take multiple seconds to respond to presses of the volume key on the remote.

====Upgradability====
For hardware with smart features, where the smarts are a physically small part of the device: does the company include a standard upgrade port so that the smarts may be overridden with a more capable unit 5-10 years down the line?<blockquote>where the smarts are a physically small part of the device</blockquote>e.g. does not apply to smartphones, digital picture frames, thermostats, other small devices where it isn't feasible to add an unobtrusive, yet reasonably sized, upgrade cavity.

Note that this "standard upgrade port" doesn't currently exist AFAIK. I envision something with a form factor like that of the chromecast or an android tv dongle, and probably available in a few different capability classes. Your range, refrigerator, and water heater would likely work with the lowest class - they don't need fast streaming or 8k graphics. Replacing the smarts in a TV ''would'' require a dongle supporting streaming, graphics, and applications. IVI (In-vehicle infotainment) systems would be at the same level as a smart tv or possibly higher.

Along with defining the capability classes, one or more connector (and pinout) would need defined. Due to operating conditions, IVI would likely require a different connector or at least a higher spec (vibration, heat, etc). One or more form factors would also need defined, to ensure that compliant products can physically fit together.

User:CorpoBlight/Product quality - and manufacturer incentives

2025-10-24T17:25:46Z

CorpoBlight: more

{{Userspace draft|date=October 2025}}

TBD: clarify whether this sort of thing is considered in-scope for this wiki. If not, maybe the mods know of a good alternative?

==Product quality - and manufacturer incentives==
Aside from the problem of corporations abusing their customers after the sale, there are other problems such as terrible product quality. Often it's very difficult for the prospective customer to determine whether a product costs more because it will last longer, or whether it's simply padding the manufacturer's bottom line. One thing that could potentially help here is a mandatory "Product Facts" label, not unlike the label found on foods in the US.

===Drawbacks===
It's argued by some that increasing the information given to consumers can, in cases, actually be detrimental to those consumers. Consider, for example, the fallacious argument that "if you can't pronounce it, it's not healthy" when it comes to ingredients. By that logic, I could create a new name for an ingredient, and that would cause it to become healthy - or vice versa. The "information can be harmful" argument would thus be that showing the ingredients ''can'' be harmful since it may influence the consumer away from something perfectly harmless.

Perhaps this is a trivial concern, but it seems prudent to try to avoid giving manufacturers the opportunity to compete through deception.

I've heard this argument promoted (for medical products) by Dr Stephen Novella, long ago on the Skeptics Guide to the Universe podcast. Of course, he explains it far more eloquently than I can.

===Items for a "product facts" label===
What sort of things could/should appear on such a label? Some data points may not make sense for some types/categories of product, such as consumables. Likewise, if a data point is too difficult for the manufacturer to determine or something they think is a trade secret, they'll make something up or sue to block the law.

====Product quality / expected product lifetime====
Before purchasing, I'd love to know how long my product should last (provided I take reasonably good care of it). But how do we turn this into a metric that isn't difficult for the manufacturer and that they can't deliberately distort?

Requiring them to state the product's expected lifetime (e.g. 5 years) could be difficult to compute and easy to distort. How do you prove that they knew material X would disintegrate rapidly?

Another measure that seems more reliable to me would be a statement about how an additional investment would affect the product's quality. If the following wording were required, the wiggle room seems very limited:<blockquote>An additional investment of 25%, '''prudently applied''', would result in a product that lasted {''number''} times longer.</blockquote>The "prudently applied" bit is load bearing: it applies to the manufacturing process (materials, manufacturing employees, QA, NRE, etc), ''not'' to things like executive compensation, stock dividends, advertising, or funding a high-pressure sales team.

If the number is high, this tells the consumer that it's a high-margin product and they get less product for their money, while if it's low it tells the consumer that most of their money is going towards the actual product. The hope is that consumers armed with this knowledge will be able to choose quality products, providing motivation for companies to produce higher quality / longer lasting products.

====Wage inequality====
This one is more about social ills and corporate greed than something directly impacting the customer's experience with the product.

Corporations like to say that they must pay their execs the way they do to retain them, because "everyone else is doing it". Would they continue to do so if it impacted their bottom line? Would the court of public opinion impact their bottom line if consumers could easily find the numbers at the time of purchase? How forgiving will the court of public opinion be if gender-based wage inequality gaps are made public?<blockquote>Our highest-paid executive makes {''number''} times as much per {''period''} as the lowest paid person in our facilities, including contractors but excluding unpaid interns, of which our workforce includes { ''percent'' | ''number'' }. The largest gender inequality gap we have is {''percent''}, for {''role''}.</blockquote>Contractors (temp employees, lawn care, janitorial, etc) "in our facilities" are included so that a company can't improve this statistic by contracting for the low-wage work.

TBD: what about companies which contract with a third party to do manufacturing or other work that is not "in our facilities"? E.g. A brand where most or all design and/or manufacturing is contracted out to companies in regions with weak pollution/safety/labor laws.

====Reliance on online connectivity / corporate servers====
Will the product function if not connected to the internet? How much functionality is lost without a connection? Will the product continue to function if the company goes under or shuts down its servers? e.g for a "smart" lock, will I be locked out of my house if my router crashes?

====Commitment to not remove features====
Does the manufacturer commit to not removing any features that are present (or advertised) at the time of purchase? (Exception: ''temporarily'' disabling a feature if a critical security vulnerability is found.)

Do they commit to never changing any of the features present (or advertised) at purchase to features that must be paid for?

The "as advertised" wording is to close the loophole of advertising a feature as "coming soon" so they can retain more control over that feature.

This also applies to completely disabling the app/device.

Example: Printer manufacturer pushes firmware update that causes it to fail to work with aftermarket ink refills.

Example: 3d-printer manufacturer pushes firmware that bricks printer if aftermarket filament is used.

====Commitment to product security====
If the product includes network connectivity, does the company certify that reasonable effort has been put into ensuring that the product is free from security defects that would impact the customer? e.g. backdoors, default passwords common to all devices (as opposed to a randomized password on the underside of the device), other common vulnerabilities.

====Commitment to provide security updates====
Does the manufacturer commit to providing pure security updates for the lifetime of the product? Through what date will such updates be provided? (In this context, a "pure security update" is one which _only_ fixes security issues and does not alter product functionality for better or worse.)

====Commitment to allow product maintenance in the event the manufacturer is unable====
If the the product line is shut down, or the manufacturer goes bankrupt or is otherwise incapacitated, do they commit to granting customers the right to documentation, source code, and other design documents necessary to

*repair and maintain the product

==== create and maintain any online infrastructure that the product depends on or is enhanced by ====

====Commitment to responsibly retain and dispose of consumer data====
Does the company commit that any consumer data that happens to be collected will remain protected in the event that the company goes bankrupt or is sold? Does the company commit that it will destroy the consumer data rather than allowing it to fall into the hands of an unscrupulous new owner? How much money will be set aside to ensure this destruction? For how long will the company retain consumer data after its collection?

====Responsible use of LLMs and the like====
Currently, these tools frequently create answers that aren't obviously wrong but also are not right. This wrong information is, at best, frustrating to the consumer, and is reasonably likely to be harmful. Does the company commit to reviewing llm-generated data before customers are exposed to it, and to label it so that customers can easily identify llm-generated sections?

====Advertising and revenue====
For hardware that allows installation of additional apps, the below questions apply ''only'' to its "base" state (i.e. no additional applications installed).

For everything else, these apply at all times (3rd-party content (such as websites), which the company has no control over, is excluded).

Does it download and display advertisements? Is the user forced to view these advertisements (i.e. no option to permanently disable ads)? Is the user allowed to mute ad audio? If ads are present, what is the use-to-ads ratio? I.e. 90 seconds of ads per 10 minutes use, 30 seconds of ads per level attempt. Is the user ever forced to click through ads?

Are purchases possible through the product? How much is the average user expected to pay per {time spent using product|calendar time period}?

====UI Responsiveness over time====
For hardware (smart TV's, smartphones, smart appliances, etc): Does the company commit to using hardware powerful enough that the UI will remain responsive even after several years of security and feature updates? Does the company commit to using UI responsivity analytics tools internally, and making such tools freely available to 3rd party app developers for the platform (if any)?

For apps, does the developer commit to using the platform's UI responsivity analytics tools?

Example: a "smart" tv that can take multiple seconds to respond to presses of the volume key on the remote.

==== Upgradability ====
For hardware with smart features, where the smarts are a physically small part of the device: does the company include a standard upgrade port so that the smarts may be overridden with a more capable unit 5-10 years down the line?

> where the smarts are a physically small part of the device

e.g. does not apply to smartphones, digital picture frames, thermostats, other small devices where it isn't feasible to add an unobtrusive, yet reasonably sized, upgrade cavity.

Note that this "standard upgrade port" doesn't currently exist AFAIK. I envision something with a form factor like that of the chromecast or an android tv dongle, and probably available in a few different capability classes. Your range, refrigerator, and water heater would likely work with the lowest class - they don't need fast streaming or 8k graphics. Replacing the smarts in a TV ''would'' require a dongle supporting streaming, graphics, and applications. IVI (In-vehicle infotainment) systems would be at the same level as a smart tv or possibly higher.

Along with defining the capability classes, one or more connector (and pinout) would need defined. Due to operating conditions, IVI would likely require a different connector or at least a higher spec (vibration, heat, etc). One or more form factors would also need defined, to ensure that compliant products can physically fit together.

Consumer Rights Wiki talk:Moderators' noticeboard

2025-10-24T05:59:20Z

CorpoBlight: /* Template "Userspace Draft" copied from wikipedia */ new section

<div style="margin: {{#ifeq:{{{navbox|<noinclude>yes</noinclude>}}}|yes|2px}} 0 0.5em; padding: 0.5em; {{{style|border: 1px solid #A0A5AD;}}} {{{backgroundstyle|background-color: var(--background-color-progressive-subtle, #eaf3ff); color: inherit;}}}">
<div style="padding: 0.25em 0; text-align: center; font-size: 120%; border-radius: 3px; font-weight: bold; {{{titlestyle|background-color: var(--background-color-content-added, #aad1ff); color: inherit;}}}">Welcome — post issues of interest to Moderators</div>
*Post '''appeals''' to article notice templates (e.g. Incomplete, Stub, etc.)
*Post requests for '''moderator action''' here (e.g. blocks)
*Just need a mod? Post here or ping a mod with a question.
*Post any information or news relevant to the moderation team here.
*To request an article to be created, do not post here, try [[Article suggestions]] instead.
*Do not report technical issues here, please use the [[Consumer_Rights_Wiki_talk:Bugs|Bugs noticeboard]] instead.

<div style="padding: 0.25em 0; text-align: center; font-size: 150%; border-radius: 3px; font-weight: bold">[[Special:NewSection/Consumer Rights Wiki talk:Moderators' noticeboard|Start a new section]]</div>
</div>
 
{{Archives}} 
==Open tasks==

*[[:Category:Articles with deletion requests]]
*[[:Category:Articles with merge requests]]
*[[:Category:Articles marked as irrelevant]]
*[[Special:NewPages]]

==In the verifiability section, aren't government policies, regulations with propagandas/agendas allowed to be cited there?==

I'm just wondering if this can cause concerns for staffs in this wiki, for example [https://www.resecurity.com/blog/article/shinyhunters-attacked-vietnams-financial-system-cic-data-leak like this one] (there's english translation but it's all google translated and for full texts translation it's locked behind paywall, so apologies for that) [[User:Justarandomguy111|Justarandomguy111]] ([[User talk:Justarandomguy111|talk]]) 09:42, 18 October 2025 (UTC)

:Can you rephrase your question? I'm not sure exactly what you're asking or how the link you shared is relevant [[User:Beanie Bo|Beanie Bo]] ([[User talk:Beanie Bo|talk]]) 12:29, 19 October 2025 (UTC)

==please delete all pages created by this user==

[[Special:Contributions/81.221.216.80|this user]] creates chatgpt raw output articles. While i dont doubt the relevance of the information, the method of creation is odd, and frankly, detrimental to this website's reputation. [[User:Plankton|Plankton]] ([[User talk:Plankton|talk]]) 20:56, 18 October 2025 (UTC)

:I’m not going to myself, but can one of the mods post a reminder to not do that? ChatGPT can be decent starting point '''if undetected''' and people keep updating it and it feels less sloppy, but this is out of hand. [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|AnotherConsumerRightsPerson]] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 05:58, 19 October 2025 (UTC)
::Yeah, those ones are particularly bad. if they don't come back and clean them up by tomorrow I'll probably just delete them, as they're pretty much unusable as starting points [[User:Keith|Keith]] ([[User talk:Keith|talk]]) 09:46, 19 October 2025 (UTC)

==So many pages with stub/incomplete notices==

Hey there, I've been messing around pressing the random article button for a while. I've noticed that about 9/10 articles on this wiki have either a stub notice or a incomplete notice. I understand why : this wiki has limited resources to polish these articles and also wish not to add friction for article creation not to deter potential contributors. However, in my opinion, it kinda ruins the image of the website. It looks unpolished, unfinished and amateur.

Is there some plan to eventually add a little friction to the system, to incentivize polishing and finishing articles. I understand this can be complicated, but right now articles are being created with a title and maybe two or three links and then left there to rot. Dont get me wrong, I am also guilty of this, though i wish i werent, and i wish there was a system preventing this kind of low-effort-good-faith contribution.

thank you for hearing me [[User:Plankton|Plankton]] ([[User talk:Plankton|talk]]) 22:27, 18 October 2025 (UTC)

:Not a mod and this may be completely wrong (especially as I don’t use discord) but I think they just want to make articles for now and later polish them. The thing is that I’m pretty sure this is how Wikipedia developed, with just making articles and later on polishing. [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|AnotherConsumerRightsPerson]] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 05:56, 19 October 2025 (UTC)
:There will absolutely be a tightening of standards later down the line, but ultimately the reason it looks unfinished is because, at present, it *is* unfinished. There'll be a lot of work needed to get it to the point where the articles have the kind of average quality we'd want them to. At the moment we really can't afford to be picky with contributions, and have to embrace the 'something is better than nothing' mentality. [[User:Keith|Keith]] ([[User talk:Keith|talk]]) 09:45, 19 October 2025 (UTC)

==Can a mod please remove this?==

Can a mod remove the sloppyai tags [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|on my userpage]] and [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson/Sandbox|my sandbox page]]? The abuse filter is making impossible to remove. Just delete the part that says SloppyAI which is in the first paragraph on both. Thanks! [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|AnotherConsumerRightsPerson]] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 07:01, 19 October 2025 (UTC)

:I don't see a SloppyAI notice [[User:Beanie Bo|Beanie Bo]] ([[User talk:Beanie Bo|talk]]) 12:25, 19 October 2025 (UTC)
::You will see SloppyAI with two curly brackets around it, not the full notice. I forgot to clarify. [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|AnotherConsumerRightsPerson]] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 12:44, 19 October 2025 (UTC)
:::Do you mean where it says: "Apparently, adding template {{sloppyai}} is a crime." [[User:Beanie Bo|Beanie Bo]] ([[User talk:Beanie Bo|talk]]) 12:53, 19 October 2025 (UTC)
::::Yes, that. [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|AnotherConsumerRightsPerson]] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 12:58, 19 October 2025 (UTC)
:::::Done <nowiki>{{Smiley}}</nowiki> [[User:Beanie Bo|Beanie Bo]] ([[User talk:Beanie Bo|talk]]) 13:03, 19 October 2025 (UTC)
::::::Well that didn't work [[User:Beanie Bo|Beanie Bo]] ([[User talk:Beanie Bo|talk]]) 13:04, 19 October 2025 (UTC)
:::::::To do it, click the source button and then try. What happened was it put <nowiki> tags around it (which basically make it ignore wikitext) because it detected wiki markup in visualeditor, which it doesn’t allow. Putting this in source: {{Smiley}}. I can’t believe I had to do that just to remove it though! [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|AnotherConsumerRightsPerson]] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 13:06, 19 October 2025 (UTC)

==deletion request==

i wish the page Category:Trading_card_companies to be deleted.

argument : it is redundant with Category:Playing_card_manufacturers

Both have 1 element : Nintendo, though the latter is embedded within Category:Game_manufacturers and the former not, thus it can be deleted [[User:Plankton|Plankton]] ([[User talk:Plankton|talk]]) 20:39, 19 October 2025 (UTC)

==deletion request==

i wish the page [[:Category:Information_technology_companies]] to be deleted

argument : it serves no purpose. all items should be moved to [[:Category:Technology_companies]]

please it will help tidy things up : an impossible task. [[User:Plankton|Plankton]] ([[User talk:Plankton|talk]]) 20:57, 19 October 2025 (UTC)

:{{Done}} (about to do when first typing this) but it might take a little bit to move everything over. [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|AnotherConsumerRightsPerson]] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 17:50, 21 October 2025 (UTC)

==deletion request==

I wish the page [[:Category:Canadian_Internet_Providers_-_Circumvent_CRTC_protection_-_Time_based_increases.]]

argument : It is a byproduct of an old spelling mistake. I've cleaned up the mess a bit. this page now needs to be deleted [[User:Plankton|Plankton]] ([[User talk:Plankton|talk]]) 21:10, 19 October 2025 (UTC)

:actually all pages in [[Special:UnusedCategories]] [[User:Plankton|Plankton]] ([[User talk:Plankton|talk]]) 21:16, 19 October 2025 (UTC)
::{{Done}} partially (only removed the specific category you mentioned) but a [[Special:UnusedCategories]] cleanup will be done by me in the near future. [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|AnotherConsumerRightsPerson]] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 17:47, 21 October 2025 (UTC)
:::Also, you can also use the [[Template:DeletionRequest|Deletionrequest template]] for this as although it might not be done very quickly, it is generally cleaner and easier for admins. [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|AnotherConsumerRightsPerson]] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 17:52, 21 October 2025 (UTC)
::::will do. I didnt know i was allowed to use it. [[User:Plankton|Plankton]] ([[User talk:Plankton|talk]]) 18:59, 21 October 2025 (UTC)
:::::Yes, anyone can use that to mark an article. It won't delete it, it just adds a notice for a mod to delete it (although it can be a bit slow at times!) [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|AnotherConsumerRightsPerson]] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 19:22, 21 October 2025 (UTC)

==page categories.==

Hi i'd like some clarification regarding categories.

from what i've noticed, each page has a category with the page name as a name. ex: Apple has a Category:Apple.

Now, does that mean all other "tags" go in Category:Apple or should they go in Apple ? Or both ? (by "tags" i mean "Category:Technology_company" or "Category:Video_game")

Please clarify this as both methods are currently used through this wiki.

Thank you for your time and hard work. I want to help out more but this question needs a definitive answer before [[User:Plankton|Plankton]] ([[User talk:Plankton|talk]]) 21:31, 19 October 2025 (UTC)

:Hello, I’m pretty sure all tags are meant to go in the category:Apple, although some pages may have lots of categories when there’s only a few in the actual category for it (or none if there’s no category). [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|AnotherConsumerRightsPerson]] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 05:21, 20 October 2025 (UTC)
::I’m also going to link to [[Consumer Rights Wiki:Categorization]] because of how good it is as a resource for learning about categories. [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|AnotherConsumerRightsPerson]] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 05:27, 20 October 2025 (UTC)
:::thanks. i hadnt found that page. i will give it a good read [[User:Plankton|Plankton]] ([[User talk:Plankton|talk]]) 21:31, 20 October 2025 (UTC)

==I've added the 'nocat' parameter to Citation needed==

Just letting mods know because if you see ANY issues with the citation needed template, then please immediately rollback the edits I have made. [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|AnotherConsumerRightsPerson]] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 18:15, 20 October 2025 (UTC)

==My submission is fine and the notice is not accurate nor able to discern context of the submission==

The sources are actually threaded conversations. I'm not sure how the bot thinks a link to a threaded forum is a news article.

I worked hard making sure my first submission was encompassing.

Yes the "titles" of the forum posts sourced may not be the same as my wiki title here as those are not my posts and would you rather not put the titles of the forum posts?, i made sure to include a "why it matters" section to clarify certain aspects stated in those threads that pertain to the issue at hand. The topic INSIDE OF THE THREADS on the forum posts were exactly pertinent.

If my submission is eligible for deletion then i'm unsure how anything gets published here. I seriously think the bot that looks over submissions needs refinement if it flags my submission like that. Also, realistically a submission page with form fields is the way to go for this. Normal people are not wiki site gurus and template perfect people. They will never use the site. I understand this is outside the scope of this particular message, but I think there are some people that have a very good grasp on wiki sites, template adherence, shortcuts, that completely confusing to a normal person cite page that gets linked and overall these people are flagging posts that normal people are trying to make. The average person that comes into contact with company issues that this site proclaims to want to address will not be able to abide by the standards of a wiki style submission process if this is the outcome of when they sincerely try to contribute. (Again, it should just be form fields and a submit button.)

Nevertheless, I am posting here as directed by the robot. [[Special:Contributions/66.191.58.153|66.191.58.153]] 09:01, 21 October 2025 (UTC)

:On the off-topic remark (I do not know what your original submission was), I agree that the Visual editor UI could be a bit easier to use.
:Some important "Insert" items like Citations should not be under a "More" menu (Windows 11 right click vibes); it took me about 15 minutes to find a source and add my first proper citation despite being a somewhat tech-savvy person. (Although, I started here making '''edits''' and thus did not see the Citation "tutorial" within the Create an article page, only the
:There could also be a quick link(s) within the editor (like the ? button) to CRW's Wiki policy with helpful description like "Contains rules, writing guidelines and the mission statement to ensure the Wiki remains credible."
:In my opinion, starting to edit wikis really feels like booting up CS 1.6 as a first timer, going on multiplayer servers and getting 20 deaths in a row for not already knowing how to wallbang. This is okay for late night LAN parties, not so motivating when people make their first contribution and get edit summaries that aren't directly constructive in their email.
:Nevertheless I could be wrong on these points. I appreciate discussion and feedback. [[User:Raster|Raster]] ([[User talk:Raster|talk]]) 13:05, 21 October 2025 (UTC)
::There are a lot of quirks with MediaWiki in general (the software is 20 years old at this point), and especially for this new wiki that has a lot of bugs and UI stuff to work out. There's supposed to be a major UI haul within the next few months or so, so hopefully that will address some of these issues you mentioned.
::Ctrl+Shift+K is a keyboard shortcut for adding citations. [[User:Beanie Bo|Beanie Bo]] ([[User talk:Beanie Bo|talk]]) 16:56, 21 October 2025 (UTC)
:Hi. Which article specifically are you referring to? [[User:Beanie Bo|Beanie Bo]] ([[User talk:Beanie Bo|talk]]) 16:53, 21 October 2025 (UTC)

==Spam articles==

I've checked [https://consumerrights.wiki/index.php?title=Special:AbuseLog&wpSearchFilter=13 Filter 13's log] and there seems to be a consistent stream of spam articles shown there. Should we block the users doing this? I assume so, but I want to be sure. [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|AnotherConsumerRightsPerson]] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 16:34, 22 October 2025 (UTC)

:Normally, we would consider this, but the types of users that end up filling up this log tend to make several accounts at a time, making blocking effectively useless. [[User:JamesTDG|JamesTDG]] ([[User talk:JamesTDG|talk]]) 03:45, 24 October 2025 (UTC)

==Question on wiki scope==

This wiki has a Legislation category, covering existing legislation.

I'd like to write up my ideas for things that could be considered for future legislation (as a matter of fact, I started: [[User:CorpoBlight/Product quality - and manufacturer incentives]]). But after I started, I began to wonder if it was in-scope for this wiki or not. If too far away from the preferred direction of this wiki, any suggestions for a different wiki where it would fit better? To be clear, I am ''not'' a lawyer. [[User:CorpoBlight|CorpoBlight]] ([[User talk:CorpoBlight|talk]]) 20:11, 23 October 2025 (UTC)

==Appeal deletion of xbox==

[[Xbox]] was proposed for deletion based on its not having been edited in a long time. I think it should be kept. The Microsoft article has several items that would be appropriate for xbox. I have seen enough commentary on xbox and the direction it is going, etc. that I am sure there are sources out there to make a good article. There are a lot of pages that link to the page, so it is probably important.
Having stubs helps the wiki grow. Gives a place for people to expand. Gives reminders of, oh yeah, that thing. Creating a stub article is a pain, why should somebody have to do it again?
If people propose deletion just because something hasn't been worked on in a while, what do they want? Editors to periodically go around and touch every article they think is worthwhile? [[User:Drakeula|Drakeula]] ([[User talk:Drakeula|talk]]) 00:37, 24 October 2025 (UTC)

:Hi, @[[User:Drakeula|Drakeula]], The Wiki tends to remove articles that have not been worked on in order to improve the perceived quality of the place. If you wish to fill in the article accordingly, I can gladly remove the deletion notice from the article for you. [[User:JamesTDG|JamesTDG]] ([[User talk:JamesTDG|talk]]) 01:17, 24 October 2025 (UTC)
::Where is this policy documented/explained? There are several problems with the policy which I would like to be sure have been discussed, and I am interested in participating in the discussion.
::In this case the article has sat unmodified for at most 2 months. That seems absurdly short for a timeout.
::The policy feels very manipulative, "work on this or the article gets it." Xbox is not my priority, but it will probably be someones. It is a shame to lose what progress is made every time somebody has other things in their life.
::I have a few main interests (AI at the moment), but dabble in lots of other things. I would rather be free to improve things here and there as I feel. The policy plainly penalizes that work style.
::(The Mary Condo follower uses a hammer to put in a screw because the screwdriver did not bring them joy. The eclectic person uses a hammer to put in a screw because they can't find one of their dozens of screwdrivers among all their other tools.)
::In general this policy seems extremely short-sighted for the wiki. Why should I work on this wiki if anything I am working on will be deleted if I get busy for a couple of months, or after I move on to other things? So I will not adopt the xbox article, but I will try to advocate to extend protection for it and all the orphans, and thereby help grow the wiki.
::I have more to say, but will save it until I find what has been said and the right place to say it. Thanks. [[User:Drakeula|Drakeula]] ([[User talk:Drakeula|talk]]) 02:12, 24 October 2025 (UTC)
:::Hi, @[[User:Drakeula|Drakeula]], the Xbox article has been in an excessively unfinished state for more than a month. Policy generally states that we need to remove barely-developed articles after 1 month. Our general expectation is that if a user is going to create an article, that they at least fill in the framework within 1 week of creation, but we give extra leeway.
:::Of course, please remember that just because a page is deleted, it does not mean that it cannot be made again! [[User:JamesTDG|JamesTDG]] ([[User talk:JamesTDG|talk]]) 03:39, 24 October 2025 (UTC)
::I agree with both points. While the Create a Page flow suggest a standard for an acceptable article: "if you're not going to be able to get the very basics of a page created today (a basic statement of wht <nowiki>{{sic}}</nowiki> the article's about with a couple of references), it might be better to make a draft in your [[wikipedia:Wikipedia:How_to_use_your_user_space|user space]]." which suggest people disobeying the notice not reading due to the attention spans of today; I have to ask if there are measures that prevent or atleast warn articles being published with (1) no citations or (2) sections with template infoboxes. (I would verify this, but don't want to accidentally create a page as a result. If such a system isn't present yet it's understandable, probably harder than I imagine to implement it.) [[User:Raster|Raster]] ([[User talk:Raster|talk]]) 03:19, 24 October 2025 (UTC)
:::Hi, @[[User:Raster|Raster]], because the wiki is intended to allow users without accounts to create pages, we cannot design a system to remind them to work on their unfinished articles. [[User:JamesTDG|JamesTDG]] ([[User talk:JamesTDG|talk]]) 03:43, 24 October 2025 (UTC)
::::Hi @[[User:JamesTDG|JamesTDG]], I don't mean "remind", I mean "prevent" like how one would disable a submit button in a webpage if some requirements are not met. Apologies for any unclear wording on my side [[User:Raster|Raster]] ([[User talk:Raster|talk]]) 03:51, 24 October 2025 (UTC)
:::::Hi, @[[User:Raster|Raster]], unfortunately this is not a system we can enforce without excessively modifying the codebase of MediaWiki. [[User:JamesTDG|JamesTDG]] ([[User talk:JamesTDG|talk]]) 03:54, 24 October 2025 (UTC)
::::::@[[User:JamesTDG|JamesTDG]], that's understandable. Thank you for the reply. I was going to suggest putting such a warning in the new page info boxes, but not sure where to put in a way people will actually read it. [[User:Raster|Raster]] ([[User talk:Raster|talk]]) 03:57, 24 October 2025 (UTC)

== Template "Userspace Draft" copied from wikipedia ==

I tried to use the [[Template:Userspace draft|Userspace_draft]] template, only to find that it didn't exist. I started with the source of that template from wikipedia, updating the wording a bit and deleting quite a bit.

I commented out a chunk that caused an error "'''Expression error: Unrecognized punctuation character "[".'''" I couldn't see how the chunk in question could cause that error, so someone with more mediawiki template experience may wish to take a look. [[User:CorpoBlight|CorpoBlight]] ([[User talk:CorpoBlight|talk]]) 05:59, 24 October 2025 (UTC)

Template:Userspace draft

2025-10-24T05:50:56Z

CorpoBlight: comment out or delete the thing causing the error and references to missing templates

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Template:Userspace draft

2025-10-24T05:28:36Z

CorpoBlight: copied from https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Template:Userspace_draft&action=edit - someone who understands templates should eyeball it.

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User:CorpoBlight/Product quality - and manufacturer incentives

2025-10-24T03:42:26Z

CorpoBlight: draft template, a bit more

{{Userspace draft|date=October 2025}}

TBD: clarify whether this sort of thing is considered in-scope for this wiki. If not, maybe the mods know of a good alternative?

==Product quality - and manufacturer incentives==
Aside from the problem of corporations abusing their customers after the sale, there are other problems such as terrible product quality. Often it's very difficult for the prospective customer to determine whether a product costs more because it will last longer, or whether it's simply padding the manufacturer's bottom line. One thing that could potentially help here is a mandatory "Product Facts" label, not unlike the label found on foods in the US.

===Drawbacks===
It's argued by some that increasing the information given to consumers can, in cases, actually be detrimental to those consumers. Consider, for example, the fallacious argument that "if you can't pronounce it, it's not healthy" when it comes to ingredients. By that logic, I could create a new name for an ingredient, and that would cause it to become healthy - or vice versa. The "information can be harmful" argument would thus be that showing the ingredients ''can'' be harmful since it may influence the consumer away from something perfectly harmless.

Perhaps this is a trivial concern, but it seems prudent to try to avoid giving manufacturers the opportunity to compete through deception.

I've heard this argument promoted (for medical products) by Dr Stephen Novella, long ago on the Skeptics Guide to the Universe podcast. Of course, he explains it far more eloquently than I can.

===Items for a "product facts" label===
What sort of things could/should appear on such a label? Some data points may not make sense for some types/categories of product, such as consumables. Likewise, if a data point is too difficult for the manufacturer to determine or something they think is a trade secret, they'll make something up or sue to block the law.

====Product quality / expected product lifetime====
Before purchasing, I'd love to know how long my product should last (provided I take reasonably good care of it). But how do we turn this into a metric that isn't difficult for the manufacturer and that they can't deliberately distort?

Requiring them to state the product's expected lifetime (e.g. 5 years) could be difficult to compute and easy to distort. How do you prove that they knew material X would disintegrate rapidly?

Another measure that seems more reliable to me would be a statement about how an additional investment would affect the product's quality. If the following wording were required, the wiggle room seems very limited:<blockquote>An additional investment of 25%, '''prudently applied''', would result in a product that lasted {''number''} times longer.</blockquote>The "prudently applied" bit is load bearing: it applies to the manufacturing process (materials, manufacturing employees, QA, NRE, etc), ''not'' to things like executive compensation, stock dividends, advertising, or funding a high-pressure sales team.

If the number is high, this tells the consumer that it's a high-margin product and they get less product for their money, while if it's low it tells the consumer that most of their money is going towards the actual product. The hope is that consumers armed with this knowledge will be able to choose quality products, providing motivation for companies to produce higher quality / longer lasting products.

====Wage inequality====
This one is more about social ills and corporate greed than something directly impacting the customer's experience with the product.

Corporations like to say that they must pay their execs the way they do to retain them, because "everyone else is doing it". Would they continue to do so if it impacted their bottom line? Would the court of public opinion impact their bottom line if consumers could easily find the numbers at the time of purchase? How forgiving will the court of public opinion be if gender-based wage inequality gaps are made public?<blockquote>Our highest-paid executive makes {''number''} times as much per {''period''} as the lowest paid person in our facilities, including contractors but excluding unpaid interns, of which our workforce includes { ''percent'' | ''number'' }. The largest gender inequality gap we have is {''percent''}, for {''role''}.</blockquote>Contractors (temp employees, lawn care, janitorial, etc) "in our facilities" are included so that a company can't improve this statistic by contracting for the low-wage work.

TBD: what about companies which contract with a third party to do manufacturing or other work that is not "in our facilities"? E.g. A brand where most or all design and/or manufacturing is contracted out to companies in regions with weak pollution/safety/labor laws.

====Reliance on online connectivity / corporate servers====
Will the product function if not connected to the internet? How much functionality is lost without a connection? Will the product continue to function if the company goes under or shuts down its servers? e.g for a "smart" lock, will I be locked out of my house if my router crashes?

====Commitment to not remove features====
Does the manufacturer commit to not removing any features that are present (or advertised) at the time of purchase? (Exception: ''temporarily'' disabling a feature if a critical security vulnerability is found.)

Do they commit to never changing any of the features present (or advertised) at purchase to features that must be paid for?

The "as advertised" wording is to close the loophole of advertising a feature as "coming soon" so they can retain more control over that feature.

====Commitment to product security====
If the product includes network connectivity, does the company certify that reasonable effort has been put into ensuring that the product is free from security defects that would impact the customer? e.g. backdoors, default passwords common to all devices (as opposed to a randomized password on the underside of the device), other common vulnerabilities.

====Commitment to provide security updates====
Does the manufacturer commit to providing pure security updates for the lifetime of the product? Through what date will such updates be provided? (In this context, a "pure security update" is one which _only_ fixes security issues and does not alter product functionality for better or worse.)

====Commitment to allow product maintenance in the event the manufacturer is unable====
If the the product line is shut down, or the manufacturer goes bankrupt or is otherwise incapacitated, do they commit to granting customers the right to documentation, source code, and other design documents necessary to

*repair and maintain the product
*create and maintain any online infrastructure that the product depends on or is enhanced by

====Commitment to responsibly retain and dispose of consumer data====
Does the company commit that any consumer data that happens to be collected will remain protected in the event that the company goes bankrupt or is sold? Does the company commit that it will destroy the consumer data rather than allowing it to fall into the hands of an unscrupulous new owner? How much money will be set aside to ensure this destruction? For how long will the company retain consumer data after its collection?

==== Responsible use of LLMs and the like ====
Currently, these tools frequently create answers that aren't obviously wrong but also are not right. This wrong information is, at best, frustrating to the consumer, and is reasonably likely to be harmful. Does the company commit to reviewing llm-generated data before customers are exposed to it, and to label it so that customers can easily identify llm-generated sections?

==== Advertising and revenue ====
For hardware that allows installation of additional apps, the below questions apply ''only'' to its "base" state (i.e. no additional applications installed).

For everything else, these apply at all times (3rd-party content (such as websites), which the company has no control over, is excluded).

Does it download and display advertisements? Is the user forced to view these advertisements (i.e. no option to permanently disable ads)? Is the user allowed to mute ad audio? If ads are present, what is the use-to-ads ratio? I.e. 90 seconds of ads per 10 minutes use, 30 seconds of ads per level attempt. Is the user ever forced to click through ads?

Are purchases possible through the product? How much is the average user expected to pay per {time spent using product|calendar time period}?

==== UI Responsiveness over time ====
For hardware (smart TV's, smartphones, smart appliances, etc): Does the company commit to using hardware powerful enough that the UI will remain responsive even after several years of security and feature updates? Does the company commit to using UI responsivity analytics tools internally, and making such tools freely available to 3rd party app developers for the platform (if any)?

For apps, does the developer commit to using the platform's UI responsivity analytics tools?

Example of failure: a "smart" tv that can take multiple seconds to respond to presses of the volume key on the remote.

User:CorpoBlight/Product quality - and manufacturer incentives

2025-10-23T20:49:13Z

CorpoBlight: moar

Draft page. TODO: clarify whether this sort of thing is considered in-scope for this wiki. If not, maybe the mods know of a good alternative?

==Product quality - and manufacturer incentives==
Aside from the problem of corporations abusing their customers after the sale, there are other problems such as terrible product quality. Often it's very difficult for the prospective customer to determine whether a product costs more because it will last longer, or whether it's simply padding the manufacturer's bottom line. One thing that could potentially help here is a mandatory "Product Facts" label, not unlike the label found on foods in the US.

===Drawbacks===
It's argued by some that increasing the information given to consumers can, in cases, actually be detrimental to those consumers. Consider, for example, the fallacious argument that "if you can't pronounce it, it's not healthy" when it comes to ingredients. By that logic, I could create a new name for an ingredient, and that would cause it to become healthy - or vice versa. The "information can be harmful" argument would thus be that showing the ingredients ''can'' be harmful since it may influence the consumer away from something perfectly harmless.

Perhaps this is a trivial concern, but it seems prudent to try to avoid giving manufacturers the opportunity to compete through deception.

I've heard this argument promoted (for medical products) by Dr Stephen Novella, long ago on the Skeptics Guide to the Universe podcast. Of course, he explains it far more eloquently than I can.

===Items for a "product facts" label===
What sort of things could/should appear on such a label? Some data points may not make sense for some types/categories of product, such as consumables. Likewise, if a data point is too difficult for the manufacturer to determine or something they think is a trade secret, they'll make something up or sue to block the law.

====Product quality / expected product lifetime====
Before purchasing, I'd love to know how long my product should last (provided I take reasonably good care of it). But how do we turn this into a metric that isn't difficult for the manufacturer and that they can't deliberately distort?

Requiring them to state the product's expected lifetime (e.g. 5 years) could be difficult to compute and easy to distort. How do you prove that they knew material X would disintegrate rapidly?

Another measure that seems more reliable to me would be a statement about how an additional investment would affect the product's quality. If the following wording were required, the wiggle room seems very limited:<blockquote>An additional investment of 25%, '''prudently applied''', would result in a product that lasted {''number''} times longer.</blockquote>The "prudently applied" bit is load bearing: it applies to the manufacturing process (materials, manufacturing employees, QA, NRE, etc), ''not'' to things like executive compensation, stock dividends, advertising, or funding a high-pressure sales team.

If the number is high, this tells the consumer that it's a high-margin product and they get less product for their money, while if it's low it tells the consumer that most of their money is going towards the actual product. The hope is that consumers armed with this knowledge will be able to choose quality products, providing motivation for companies to produce higher quality / longer lasting products.

====Wage inequality====
This one is more about social ills and corporate greed than something directly impacting the customer's experience with the product.

Corporations like to say that they must pay their execs the way they do to retain them, because "everyone else is doing it". Would they continue to do so if it impacted their bottom line? Would the court of public opinion impact their bottom line if consumers could easily find the numbers at the time of purchase? How forgiving will the court of public opinion be if gender-based wage inequality gaps are made public?<blockquote>Our highest-paid executive makes {''number''} times as much per {''period''} as the lowest paid person in our facilities, including contractors but excluding unpaid interns, of which our workforce includes { ''percent'' | ''number'' }. The largest gender inequality gap we have is {''percent''}, for {''role''}.</blockquote>Contractors (temp employees, lawn care, janitorial, etc) "in our facilities" are included so that a company can't improve this statistic by contracting for the low-wage work.

TBD: what about companies which contract with a third party to do manufacturing or other work that is not "in our facilities"? E.g. A brand where most or all design and/or manufacturing is contracted out to companies in regions with weak pollution/safety/labor laws.

====Reliance on online connectivity / corporate servers====
Will the product function if not connected to the internet? How much functionality is lost without a connection? Will the product continue to function if the company goes under or shuts down its servers? e.g for a "smart" lock, will I be locked out of my house if my router crashes?

====Commitment to not remove features====
Does the manufacturer commit to not removing any features that are present (or advertised) at the time of purchase? (Exception: ''temporarily'' disabling a feature if a critical security vulnerability is found.)

Do they commit to never changing any of the features present (or advertised) at purchase to features that must be paid for?

The "as advertised" wording is to close the loophole of advertising a feature as "coming soon" so they can retain more control over that feature.

====Commitment to product security====
If the product includes network connectivity, does the company certify that reasonable effort has been put into ensuring that the product is free from security defects that would impact the customer? e.g. backdoors, default passwords common to all devices (as opposed to a randomized password on the underside of the device), other common vulnerabilities.

====Commitment to provide security updates====
Does the manufacturer commit to providing pure security updates for the lifetime of the product? Through what date will such updates be provided? (In this context, a "pure security update" is one which _only_ fixes security issues and does not alter product functionality for better or worse.)

====Commitment to allow product maintenance in the event the manufacturer is unable====
If the the product line is shut down, or the manufacturer goes bankrupt or is otherwise incapacitated, do they commit to granting customers the right to documentation, source code, and other design documents necessary to

*repair and maintain the product
*create and maintain any online infrastructure that the product depends on or is enhanced by

====Commitment to responsibly retain and dispose of consumer data====
Does the company commit that any consumer data that happens to be collected will remain protected in the event that the company goes bankrupt or is sold? Does the company commit that it will destroy the consumer data rather than allowing it to fall into the hands of an unscrupulous new owner? How much money will be set aside to ensure this destruction? For how long will the company retain consumer data after its collection?

==== Responsible use of LLMs and the like ====
Currently, these tools frequently create answers that aren't obviously wrong but also are not right. This wrong information is, at best, frustrating to the consumer, and is reasonably likely to be harmful. Does the company commit to reviewing llm-generated data before customers are exposed to it, and to label it so that customers can easily identify llm-generated sections?

==== Advertising and revenue ====
For hardware that allows installation of additional apps, the below questions apply ''only'' to its "base" state (i.e. no additional applications installed).

For everything else, these apply at all times (again, excluding browsers since they display 3rd-party content which the developer has no control over).

Does it download and display advertisements? Is the user forced to view these advertisements (i.e. no option to permanently disable ads)? Is the user allowed to mute ad audio? If ads are present, what is the use-to-ads ratio? I.e. 90 seconds of ads per 10 minutes use, 30 seconds of ads per level attempt. Is the user ever forced to click through ads?

==== UI Responsiveness over time ====
For hardware (smart TV's, smartphones, smart appliances, etc): Does the company commit to using hardware powerful enough that the UI will remain responsive even after several years of security and feature updates? Does the company commit to using UI responsivity analytics tools internally, and making such tools freely available to 3rd party app developers for the platform (if any)?

For apps, does the developer commit to using the platform's UI responsivity analytics tools?

Example of failure: a "smart" tv that can take multiple seconds to respond to presses of the volume key on the remote.

Consumer Rights Wiki talk:Moderators' noticeboard

2025-10-23T20:11:45Z

CorpoBlight: /* Question on wiki scope */ new section

<div style="margin: {{#ifeq:{{{navbox|<noinclude>yes</noinclude>}}}|yes|2px}} 0 0.5em; padding: 0.5em; {{{style|border: 1px solid #A0A5AD;}}} {{{backgroundstyle|background-color: var(--background-color-progressive-subtle, #eaf3ff); color: inherit;}}}">
<div style="padding: 0.25em 0; text-align: center; font-size: 120%; border-radius: 3px; font-weight: bold; {{{titlestyle|background-color: var(--background-color-content-added, #aad1ff); color: inherit;}}}">Welcome — post issues of interest to Moderators</div>
*Post '''appeals''' to article notice templates (e.g. Incomplete, Stub, etc.)
*Post requests for '''moderator action''' here (e.g. blocks)
*Just need a mod? Post here or ping a mod with a question.
*Post any information or news relevant to the moderation team here.
*To request an article to be created, do not post here, try [[Article suggestions]] instead.
*Do not report technical issues here, please use the [[Consumer_Rights_Wiki_talk:Bugs|Bugs noticeboard]] instead.

<div style="padding: 0.25em 0; text-align: center; font-size: 150%; border-radius: 3px; font-weight: bold">[[Special:NewSection/Consumer Rights Wiki talk:Moderators' noticeboard|Start a new section]]</div>
</div>
 
{{Archives}} 
==Open tasks==

*[[:Category:Articles with deletion requests]]
*[[:Category:Articles with merge requests]]
*[[:Category:Articles marked as irrelevant]]
*[[Special:NewPages]]

==In the verifiability section, aren't government policies, regulations with propagandas/agendas allowed to be cited there?==

I'm just wondering if this can cause concerns for staffs in this wiki, for example [https://www.resecurity.com/blog/article/shinyhunters-attacked-vietnams-financial-system-cic-data-leak like this one] (there's english translation but it's all google translated and for full texts translation it's locked behind paywall, so apologies for that) [[User:Justarandomguy111|Justarandomguy111]] ([[User talk:Justarandomguy111|talk]]) 09:42, 18 October 2025 (UTC)

:Can you rephrase your question? I'm not sure exactly what you're asking or how the link you shared is relevant [[User:Beanie Bo|Beanie Bo]] ([[User talk:Beanie Bo|talk]]) 12:29, 19 October 2025 (UTC)

==please delete all pages created by this user==

[[Special:Contributions/81.221.216.80|this user]] creates chatgpt raw output articles. While i dont doubt the relevance of the information, the method of creation is odd, and frankly, detrimental to this website's reputation. [[User:Plankton|Plankton]] ([[User talk:Plankton|talk]]) 20:56, 18 October 2025 (UTC)

:I’m not going to myself, but can one of the mods post a reminder to not do that? ChatGPT can be decent starting point '''if undetected''' and people keep updating it and it feels less sloppy, but this is out of hand. [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|AnotherConsumerRightsPerson]] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 05:58, 19 October 2025 (UTC)
::Yeah, those ones are particularly bad. if they don't come back and clean them up by tomorrow I'll probably just delete them, as they're pretty much unusable as starting points [[User:Keith|Keith]] ([[User talk:Keith|talk]]) 09:46, 19 October 2025 (UTC)

==So many pages with stub/incomplete notices==

Hey there, I've been messing around pressing the random article button for a while. I've noticed that about 9/10 articles on this wiki have either a stub notice or a incomplete notice. I understand why : this wiki has limited resources to polish these articles and also wish not to add friction for article creation not to deter potential contributors. However, in my opinion, it kinda ruins the image of the website. It looks unpolished, unfinished and amateur.

Is there some plan to eventually add a little friction to the system, to incentivize polishing and finishing articles. I understand this can be complicated, but right now articles are being created with a title and maybe two or three links and then left there to rot. Dont get me wrong, I am also guilty of this, though i wish i werent, and i wish there was a system preventing this kind of low-effort-good-faith contribution.

thank you for hearing me [[User:Plankton|Plankton]] ([[User talk:Plankton|talk]]) 22:27, 18 October 2025 (UTC)

:Not a mod and this may be completely wrong (especially as I don’t use discord) but I think they just want to make articles for now and later polish them. The thing is that I’m pretty sure this is how Wikipedia developed, with just making articles and later on polishing. [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|AnotherConsumerRightsPerson]] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 05:56, 19 October 2025 (UTC)
:There will absolutely be a tightening of standards later down the line, but ultimately the reason it looks unfinished is because, at present, it *is* unfinished. There'll be a lot of work needed to get it to the point where the articles have the kind of average quality we'd want them to. At the moment we really can't afford to be picky with contributions, and have to embrace the 'something is better than nothing' mentality. [[User:Keith|Keith]] ([[User talk:Keith|talk]]) 09:45, 19 October 2025 (UTC)

==Can a mod please remove this?==

Can a mod remove the sloppyai tags [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|on my userpage]] and [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson/Sandbox|my sandbox page]]? The abuse filter is making impossible to remove. Just delete the part that says SloppyAI which is in the first paragraph on both. Thanks! [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|AnotherConsumerRightsPerson]] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 07:01, 19 October 2025 (UTC)

:I don't see a SloppyAI notice [[User:Beanie Bo|Beanie Bo]] ([[User talk:Beanie Bo|talk]]) 12:25, 19 October 2025 (UTC)
::You will see SloppyAI with two curly brackets around it, not the full notice. I forgot to clarify. [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|AnotherConsumerRightsPerson]] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 12:44, 19 October 2025 (UTC)
:::Do you mean where it says: "Apparently, adding template {{sloppyai}} is a crime." [[User:Beanie Bo|Beanie Bo]] ([[User talk:Beanie Bo|talk]]) 12:53, 19 October 2025 (UTC)
::::Yes, that. [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|AnotherConsumerRightsPerson]] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 12:58, 19 October 2025 (UTC)
:::::Done <nowiki>{{Smiley}}</nowiki> [[User:Beanie Bo|Beanie Bo]] ([[User talk:Beanie Bo|talk]]) 13:03, 19 October 2025 (UTC)
::::::Well that didn't work [[User:Beanie Bo|Beanie Bo]] ([[User talk:Beanie Bo|talk]]) 13:04, 19 October 2025 (UTC)
:::::::To do it, click the source button and then try. What happened was it put <nowiki> tags around it (which basically make it ignore wikitext) because it detected wiki markup in visualeditor, which it doesn’t allow. Putting this in source: {{Smiley}}. I can’t believe I had to do that just to remove it though! [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|AnotherConsumerRightsPerson]] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 13:06, 19 October 2025 (UTC)

==deletion request==

i wish the page Category:Trading_card_companies to be deleted.

argument : it is redundant with Category:Playing_card_manufacturers

Both have 1 element : Nintendo, though the latter is embedded within Category:Game_manufacturers and the former not, thus it can be deleted [[User:Plankton|Plankton]] ([[User talk:Plankton|talk]]) 20:39, 19 October 2025 (UTC)

==deletion request==

i wish the page [[:Category:Information_technology_companies]] to be deleted

argument : it serves no purpose. all items should be moved to [[:Category:Technology_companies]]

please it will help tidy things up : an impossible task. [[User:Plankton|Plankton]] ([[User talk:Plankton|talk]]) 20:57, 19 October 2025 (UTC)

:{{Done}} (about to do when first typing this) but it might take a little bit to move everything over. [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|AnotherConsumerRightsPerson]] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 17:50, 21 October 2025 (UTC)

==deletion request==

I wish the page [[:Category:Canadian_Internet_Providers_-_Circumvent_CRTC_protection_-_Time_based_increases.]]

argument : It is a byproduct of an old spelling mistake. I've cleaned up the mess a bit. this page now needs to be deleted [[User:Plankton|Plankton]] ([[User talk:Plankton|talk]]) 21:10, 19 October 2025 (UTC)

:actually all pages in [[Special:UnusedCategories]] [[User:Plankton|Plankton]] ([[User talk:Plankton|talk]]) 21:16, 19 October 2025 (UTC)
::{{Done}} partially (only removed the specific category you mentioned) but a [[Special:UnusedCategories]] cleanup will be done by me in the near future. [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|AnotherConsumerRightsPerson]] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 17:47, 21 October 2025 (UTC)
:::Also, you can also use the [[Template:DeletionRequest|Deletionrequest template]] for this as although it might not be done very quickly, it is generally cleaner and easier for admins. [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|AnotherConsumerRightsPerson]] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 17:52, 21 October 2025 (UTC)
::::will do. I didnt know i was allowed to use it. [[User:Plankton|Plankton]] ([[User talk:Plankton|talk]]) 18:59, 21 October 2025 (UTC)
:::::Yes, anyone can use that to mark an article. It won't delete it, it just adds a notice for a mod to delete it (although it can be a bit slow at times!) [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|AnotherConsumerRightsPerson]] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 19:22, 21 October 2025 (UTC)

==page categories.==

Hi i'd like some clarification regarding categories.

from what i've noticed, each page has a category with the page name as a name. ex: Apple has a Category:Apple.

Now, does that mean all other "tags" go in Category:Apple or should they go in Apple ? Or both ? (by "tags" i mean "Category:Technology_company" or "Category:Video_game")

Please clarify this as both methods are currently used through this wiki.

Thank you for your time and hard work. I want to help out more but this question needs a definitive answer before [[User:Plankton|Plankton]] ([[User talk:Plankton|talk]]) 21:31, 19 October 2025 (UTC)

:Hello, I’m pretty sure all tags are meant to go in the category:Apple, although some pages may have lots of categories when there’s only a few in the actual category for it (or none if there’s no category). [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|AnotherConsumerRightsPerson]] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 05:21, 20 October 2025 (UTC)
::I’m also going to link to [[Consumer Rights Wiki:Categorization]] because of how good it is as a resource for learning about categories. [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|AnotherConsumerRightsPerson]] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 05:27, 20 October 2025 (UTC)
:::thanks. i hadnt found that page. i will give it a good read [[User:Plankton|Plankton]] ([[User talk:Plankton|talk]]) 21:31, 20 October 2025 (UTC)

==I've added the 'nocat' parameter to Citation needed==

Just letting mods know because if you see ANY issues with the citation needed template, then please immediately rollback the edits I have made. [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|AnotherConsumerRightsPerson]] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 18:15, 20 October 2025 (UTC)

==My submission is fine and the notice is not accurate nor able to discern context of the submission==

The sources are actually threaded conversations. I'm not sure how the bot thinks a link to a threaded forum is a news article.

I worked hard making sure my first submission was encompassing.

Yes the "titles" of the forum posts sourced may not be the same as my wiki title here as those are not my posts and would you rather not put the titles of the forum posts?, i made sure to include a "why it matters" section to clarify certain aspects stated in those threads that pertain to the issue at hand. The topic INSIDE OF THE THREADS on the forum posts were exactly pertinent.

If my submission is eligible for deletion then i'm unsure how anything gets published here. I seriously think the bot that looks over submissions needs refinement if it flags my submission like that. Also, realistically a submission page with form fields is the way to go for this. Normal people are not wiki site gurus and template perfect people. They will never use the site. I understand this is outside the scope of this particular message, but I think there are some people that have a very good grasp on wiki sites, template adherence, shortcuts, that completely confusing to a normal person cite page that gets linked and overall these people are flagging posts that normal people are trying to make. The average person that comes into contact with company issues that this site proclaims to want to address will not be able to abide by the standards of a wiki style submission process if this is the outcome of when they sincerely try to contribute. (Again, it should just be form fields and a submit button.)

Nevertheless, I am posting here as directed by the robot. [[Special:Contributions/66.191.58.153|66.191.58.153]] 09:01, 21 October 2025 (UTC)

:On the off-topic remark (I do not know what your original submission was), I agree that the Visual editor UI could be a bit easier to use.
:Some important "Insert" items like Citations should not be under a "More" menu (Windows 11 right click vibes); it took me about 15 minutes to find a source and add my first proper citation despite being a somewhat tech-savvy person. (Although, I started here making '''edits''' and thus did not see the Citation "tutorial" within the Create an article page, only the
:There could also be a quick link(s) within the editor (like the ? button) to CRW's Wiki policy with helpful description like "Contains rules, writing guidelines and the mission statement to ensure the Wiki remains credible."
:In my opinion, starting to edit wikis really feels like booting up CS 1.6 as a first timer, going on multiplayer servers and getting 20 deaths in a row for not already knowing how to wallbang. This is okay for late night LAN parties, not so motivating when people make their first contribution and get edit summaries that aren't directly constructive in their email.
:Nevertheless I could be wrong on these points. I appreciate discussion and feedback. [[User:Raster|Raster]] ([[User talk:Raster|talk]]) 13:05, 21 October 2025 (UTC)
::There are a lot of quirks with MediaWiki in general (the software is 20 years old at this point), and especially for this new wiki that has a lot of bugs and UI stuff to work out. There's supposed to be a major UI haul within the next few months or so, so hopefully that will address some of these issues you mentioned.
::Ctrl+Shift+K is a keyboard shortcut for adding citations. [[User:Beanie Bo|Beanie Bo]] ([[User talk:Beanie Bo|talk]]) 16:56, 21 October 2025 (UTC)
:Hi. Which article specifically are you referring to? [[User:Beanie Bo|Beanie Bo]] ([[User talk:Beanie Bo|talk]]) 16:53, 21 October 2025 (UTC)

== Spam articles ==

I've checked [https://consumerrights.wiki/index.php?title=Special:AbuseLog&wpSearchFilter=13 Filter 13's log] and there seems to be a consistent stream of spam articles shown there. Should we block the users doing this? I assume so, but I want to be sure. [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|AnotherConsumerRightsPerson]] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 16:34, 22 October 2025 (UTC)

== Question on wiki scope ==

This wiki has a Legislation category, covering existing legislation.

I'd like to write up my ideas for things that could be considered for future legislation (as a matter of fact, I started: [[User:CorpoBlight/Product quality - and manufacturer incentives]]). But after I started, I began to wonder if it was in-scope for this wiki or not. If too far away from the preferred direction of this wiki, any suggestions for a different wiki where it would fit better? To be clear, I am ''not'' a lawyer. [[User:CorpoBlight|CorpoBlight]] ([[User talk:CorpoBlight|talk]]) 20:11, 23 October 2025 (UTC)

User:CorpoBlight

2025-10-19T05:53:35Z

CorpoBlight: about

Hello!

I just learned of the existence of this wiki yesterday. Corporations taking advantage of their consumers is something I'm quite unhappy with, but what I think about the most is "how do we get away from where we're at to a place where corporations must respect their customers". Assuming such things aren't considered out-of-scope for this wiki, I'll probably do a fair amount of writing on the subject. Both in terms of the remedies I can imagine, and in terms of loopholes/enforcement difficulty/other undesirable outcomes. That said, I am ''not'' any sort of expert.

moved my product quality / "Product Facts" writing to https://consumerrights.wiki/w/User:CorpoBlight/Product_quality_-_and_manufacturer_incentives

User:CorpoBlight

2025-10-19T05:45:15Z

CorpoBlight: moved previous text to a sub-page

moved my product quality / "Product Facts" writing to https://consumerrights.wiki/w/User:CorpoBlight/Product_quality_-_and_manufacturer_incentives

User:CorpoBlight/Product quality - and manufacturer incentives

2025-10-19T05:42:45Z

CorpoBlight: copy/paste draft from user page

Draft page. TODO: clarify whether this sort of thing is considered in-scope for this wiki. If not, maybe the mods know of a good alternative?

==Product quality - and manufacturer incentives==
Aside from the problem of corporations abusing their customers after the sale, there are other problems such as terrible product quality. Often it's very difficult for the prospective customer to determine whether a product costs more because it will last longer, or whether it's simply padding the manufacturer's bottom line. One thing that could potentially help here is a mandatory "Product Facts" label, not unlike the label found on foods in the US.

===Drawbacks===
It's argued by some that increasing the information given to consumers can, in cases, actually be detrimental to those consumers. Consider, for example, the fallacious argument that "if you can't pronounce it, it's not healthy" when it comes to ingredients. By that logic, I could create a new name for an ingredient, and that would cause it to become healthy - or vice versa. The "information can be harmful" argument would thus be that showing the ingredients ''can'' be harmful since it may influence the consumer away from something perfectly harmless.

Perhaps this is a trivial concern, but it seems prudent to try to avoid giving manufacturers the opportunity to compete through deception.

I've heard this argument promoted (for medical products) by Dr Stephen Novella, long ago on the Skeptics Guide to the Universe podcast. Of course, he explains it far more eloquently than I can.

===Items for a "product facts" label===
What sort of things could/should appear on such a label? Some data points may not make sense for some types/categories of product, such as consumables. Likewise, if a data point is too difficult for the manufacturer to determine or something they think is a trade secret, they'll make something up or sue to block the law.

====Product quality / expected product lifetime====
Before purchasing, I'd love to know how long my product should last (provided I take reasonably good care of it). But how do we turn this into a metric that isn't difficult for the manufacturer and that they can't deliberately distort?

Requiring them to state the product's expected lifetime (e.g. 5 years) could be difficult to compute and easy to distort. How do you prove that they knew material X would disintegrate rapidly?

Another measure that seems more reliable to me would be a statement about how an additional investment would affect the product's quality. If the following wording were required, the wiggle room seems very limited:<blockquote>An additional investment of 25%, '''prudently applied''', would result in a product that lasted {''number''} times longer.</blockquote>The "prudently applied" bit is load bearing: it applies to the manufacturing process (materials, manufacturing employees, QA, NRE, etc), ''not'' to things like executive compensation, stock dividends, advertising, or funding a high-pressure sales team.

If the number is high, this tells the consumer that it's a high-margin product and they get less product for their money, while if it's low it tells the consumer that most of their money is going towards the actual product. The hope is that consumers armed with this knowledge will be able to choose quality products, providing motivation for companies to produce higher quality / longer lasting products.

====Wage inequality====
This one is more about social ills and corporate greed than something directly impacting the customer's experience with the product.

Corporations like to say that they must pay their execs the way they do to retain them, because "everyone else is doing it". Would they continue to do so if it impacted their bottom line? Would the court of public opinion impact their bottom line if consumers could easily find the numbers at the time of purchase? How forgiving will the court of public opinion be if gender-based wage inequality gaps are made public?<blockquote>Our highest-paid executive makes {''number''} times as much per {''period''} as the lowest paid person in our facilities, including contractors but excluding unpaid interns, of which our workforce includes { ''percent'' | ''number'' }. The largest gender inequality gap we have is {''percent''}, for {''role''}.</blockquote>Contractors (temp employees, lawn care, janitorial, etc) "in our facilities" are included so that a company can't improve this statistic by contracting for the low-wage work.

TBD: what about companies which contract with a third party to do manufacturing or other work that is not "in our facilities"? E.g. A brand where most or all design and/or manufacturing is contracted out to companies in regions with weak pollution/safety/labor laws.

====Reliance on online connectivity / corporate servers====
Will the product function if not connected to the internet? How much functionality is lost without a connection? Will the product continue to function if the company goes under or shuts down its servers? e.g for a "smart" lock, will I be locked out of my house if my router crashes?

====Commitment to not remove features====
Does the manufacturer commit to not removing any features that are present (or advertised) at the time of purchase? (Exception: ''temporarily'' disabling a feature if a critical security vulnerability is found.)

Do they commit to never changing any of the features present (or advertised) at purchase to features that must be paid for?

The "as advertised" wording is to close the loophole of advertising a feature as "coming soon" so they can retain more control over that feature.

==== Commitment to product security ====
If the product includes network connectivity, does the company certify that reasonable effort has been put into ensuring that the product is free from security defects that would impact the customer? e.g. backdoors, default passwords common to all devices (as opposed to a randomized password on the underside of the device), other common vulnerabilities.

====Commitment to provide security updates====
Does the manufacturer commit to providing pure security updates for the lifetime of the product? Through what date will such updates be provided? (In this context, a "pure security update" is one which _only_ fixes security issues and does not alter product functionality for better or worse.)

====Commitment to allow product maintenance in the event the manufacturer is unable====
If the the product line is shut down, or the manufacturer goes bankrupt or is otherwise incapacitated, do they commit to granting customers the right to documentation, source code, and other design documents necessary to

*repair and maintain the product
*create and maintain any online infrastructure that the product depends on or is enhanced by

==== Commitment to responsibly retain and dispose of consumer data ====
Does the company commit that any consumer data that happens to be collected will remain protected in the event that the company goes bankrupt or is sold? Does the company commit that it will destroy the consumer data rather than allowing it to fall into the hands of an unscrupulous new owner? How much money will be set aside to ensure this destruction? For how long will the company retain consumer data after its collection?

User:CorpoBlight

2025-10-18T21:55:37Z

CorpoBlight: a bit more

==Product quality - and manufacturer incentives==
Aside from the problem of corporations abusing their customers after the sale, there are other problems such as terrible product quality. Often it's very difficult for the prospective customer to determine whether a product costs more because it will last longer, or whether it's simply padding the manufacturer's bottom line. One thing that could potentially help here is a mandatory "Product Facts" label, not unlike the label found on foods in the US.

===Drawbacks===
It's argued by some that increasing the information given to consumers can, in cases, actually be detrimental to those consumers. Consider, for example, the fallacious argument that "if you can't pronounce it, it's not healthy" when it comes to ingredients. By that logic, I could create a new name for an ingredient, and that would cause it to become healthy - or vice versa. The "information can be harmful" argument would thus be that showing the ingredients ''can'' be harmful since it may influence the consumer away from something perfectly harmless.

Perhaps this is a trivial concern, but it seems prudent to try to avoid giving manufacturers the opportunity to compete through deception.

I've heard this argument promoted (for medical products) by Dr Stephen Novella, long ago on the Skeptics Guide to the Universe podcast. Of course, he explains it far more eloquently than I can.

===Items for a "product facts" label===
What sort of things could/should appear on such a label? Some data points may not make sense for some types/categories of product, such as consumables. Likewise, if a data point is too difficult for the manufacturer to determine or something they think is a trade secret, they'll make something up or sue to block the law.

====Product quality / expected product lifetime====
Before purchasing, I'd love to know how long my product should last (provided I take reasonably good care of it). But how do we turn this into a metric that isn't difficult for the manufacturer and that they can't deliberately distort?

Requiring them to state the product's expected lifetime (e.g. 5 years) could be difficult to compute and easy to distort. How do you prove that they knew material X would disintegrate rapidly?

Another measure that seems more reliable to me would be a statement about how an additional investment would affect the product's quality. If the following wording were required, the wiggle room seems very limited:<blockquote>An additional investment of 25%, '''prudently applied''', would result in a product that lasted {''number''} times longer.</blockquote>The "prudently applied" bit is load bearing: it applies to the manufacturing process (materials, manufacturing employees, QA, NRE, etc), ''not'' to things like executive compensation, stock dividends, advertising, or funding a high-pressure sales team.

If the number is high, this tells the consumer that it's a high-margin product and they get less product for their money, while if it's low it tells the consumer that most of their money is going towards the actual product. The hope is that consumers armed with this knowledge will be able to choose quality products, providing motivation for companies to produce higher quality / longer lasting products.

====Wage inequality====
This one is more about social ills and corporate greed than something directly impacting the customer's experience with the product.

Corporations like to say that they must pay their execs the way they do to retain them, because "everyone else is doing it". Would they continue to do so if it impacted their bottom line? Would the court of public opinion impact their bottom line if consumers could easily find the numbers at the time of purchase? How forgiving will the court of public opinion be if gender-based wage inequality gaps are made public?<blockquote>Our highest-paid executive makes {''number''} times as much per {''period''} as the lowest paid person in our facilities, including contractors but excluding unpaid interns, of which our workforce includes { ''percent'' | ''number'' }. The largest gender inequality gap we have is {''percent''}, for {''role''}.</blockquote>Contractors (temp employees, lawn care, janitorial, etc) "in our facilities" are included so that a company can't improve this statistic by contracting for the low-wage work.

TBD: what about companies which contract with a third party to do manufacturing or other work that is not "in our facilities"? E.g. A brand where most or all design and/or manufacturing is contracted out to companies in regions with weak pollution/safety/labor laws.

====Reliance on online connectivity / corporate servers====
Will the product function if not connected to the internet? How much functionality is lost without a connection? Will the product continue to function if the company goes under or shuts down its servers? e.g for a "smart" lock, will I be locked out of my house if my router crashes?

====Commitment to not remove features====
Does the manufacturer commit to not removing any features that are present (or advertised) at the time of purchase? (Exception: ''temporarily'' disabling a feature if a critical security vulnerability is found.)

Do they commit to never changing any of the features present (or advertised) at purchase to features that must be paid for?

The "as advertised" wording is to close the loophole of advertising a feature as "coming soon" so they can retain more control over that feature.

==== Commitment to product security ====
If the product includes network connectivity, does the company certify that reasonable effort has been put into ensuring that the product is free from security defects that would impact the customer? e.g. backdoors, default passwords common to all devices (as opposed to a randomized password on the underside of the device), other common vulnerabilities.

====Commitment to provide security updates====
Does the manufacturer commit to providing pure security updates for the lifetime of the product? Through what date will such updates be provided? (In this context, a "pure security update" is one which _only_ fixes security issues and does not alter product functionality for better or worse.)

====Commitment to allow product maintenance in the event the manufacturer is unable====
If the the product line is shut down, or the manufacturer goes bankrupt or is otherwise incapacitated, do they commit to granting customers the right to documentation, source code, and other design documents necessary to

*repair and maintain the product
*create and maintain any online infrastructure that the product depends on or is enhanced by

==== Commitment to responsibly retain and dispose of consumer data ====
Does the company commit that any consumer data that happens to be collected will remain protected in the event that the company goes bankrupt or is sold? Does the company commit that it will destroy the consumer data rather than allowing it to fall into the hands of an unscrupulous new owner? How much money will be set aside to ensure this destruction? For how long will the company retain consumer data after its collection?

Article suggestions

2025-10-18T21:15:13Z

CorpoBlight: /* List of companies doing the right thing */ reword

This page is dedicated towards providing a communal list for users to submit potential articles to feature on the wiki, and to give editors inspiration on what pages they might want to add to the wiki. If you create an article based on an entry from this list, or see that someone else has done so, please make sure to delete the row from this page in order to prevent confusion.

Sources should be inserted within the 'refs' section of the table. If using the visual editor, take advantage of '<nowiki/>'''insert reference'''<nowiki/>' via ''''ctrl + shift + k'''<nowiki/>' so that the sources are quick to add to future articles. If you are using the source editor, feel free to copy and paste the formatting from other correctly formatted references on the page. The more sources you include with an article idea, the more likely it is that others will pick the article idea up and run with it, so please attempt to include a good variety of descriptive sources!

Please take note of the wiki's [[Consumer Rights Wiki:Inclusion guidelines|Inclusion criteria]] when submitting article suggestions. If you see article suggestions here which do not fit the Wiki, feel free to remove them, leaving your reasoning in an edit note.

If you are an editor looking for further inspiration to write an article, you can also check out the [[Louis Rossmann - Video Directory|Louis Rossmann video directory]] for a good collection of potential articles.

==Example==
Below is an example of what an entry should appear as:
{| class="wikitable"
|+
!Company
!Summary of Incident
!Refs
|-
|[[Nintendo]]
|In 2025, the company Nintendo stripped Switch 2 consoles that used the MIG switch cartridge of all online functionality
|<ref name=":3">{{Cite web |last=Scattered Brain |date=Jun 16, 2025 |title=Soo... Nintendo banned my Switch 2 (Don't try the MIG Switch!) |url=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ExgYTA18_vo&t=656s |access-date=Jun 18, 2025 |website=[[YouTube]]}}</ref><ref name=":0">{{Cite news |last=Orland |first=Kyle |date=Jun 17, 2025 |title=Switch 2 users report online console bans after running personal game “backups” |url=https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2025/06/playing-personal-game-backups-could-get-your-switch-2-banned-by-nintendo/ |access-date=Jun 19, 2025 |work=Ars Technica}}</ref>
|}

==List of incidents not yet covered==
{| class="wikitable"
!Company
!Summary of Incident
!Refs
|-
|[[Audi]]
|Subscription-based paywalling of basic features of the Audi A3 in the EU and the UK.
|<ref>{{Cite web |last=MickDrivesCars |date=2025-07-28 |title=How to ruin your car brand |url=https://youtu.be/ueHgn6UTZjk |url-status=live |website=YouTube}}</ref><ref>{{Cite news |last=Haefner |first=Morgan |last2=Hodge |first2=Lawrence |date=2024-03-14 |title=Audi wants buyers to pay for basic car features |url=https://qz.com/audi-a3-buyers-must-subscribe-to-use-basic-car-features-1851333470 |url-status=live |archive-url=https://archive.ph/B1SHT |archive-date=2025-08-25 |access-date=2025-08-25 |work=Quartz}}</ref><ref>{{Cite news |last=Hundal |first=Thomas |date=2024-03-13 |title=Audi Wants European A3 Customers To Subscribe To Features That Come Standard On A Base Toyota Corolla |url=https://www.theautopian.com/audi-wants-european-a3-customers-to-subscribe-to-features-that-come-standard-on-a-base-toyota-corolla/ |url-status=live |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20250208095611/https://www.theautopian.com/audi-wants-european-a3-customers-to-subscribe-to-features-that-come-standard-on-a-base-toyota-corolla/ |archive-date=2025-02-08 |access-date=2025-08-25 |work=The Autopian}}</ref>
|-
|[[ABC Financial Services]]
|Manages memberships and recurring service subscriptions for other companies. Prevents customers from being able to cancel a service by locking them into a never-ending cycle of auto renewals, and not allowing the customer to opt out of auto renewal.
|-
|LBRY Foundation, Odysee
|Community first decentralization & Odysseys plan to enable censorship by switching away from the opensource LBRY network.
|<ref>{{Cite web |title=The LBRY Foundation |url=https://lbry.org/ |url-status=live |access-date=08 Aug 2025 |quote=The LBRY community invites everyone to join us in building a more free and open way to share content and information online.}}</ref><ref name=":2">{{Cite news |last=Watson |first=RT |date=06 June 2024 |title=Decentralized YouTube alternative Odysee acquired by Forward Research despite content concerns |url=https://www.theblock.co/post/298888/decentralized-youtube-alternative-odysee-acquired-by-forward-research-despite-content-concerns |url-status=live |access-date=8/16/25 |work=The Block}}</ref><ref>{{Cite journal |last=Li |first=Jun |last2=Grintsvayg |first2=Alex |last3=Kauffman |first3=Jeremy |last4=Fleming |first4=Charles |date=2020 |title=LBRY: A Blockchain-Based Decentralized Digital Content Marketplace |url=https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/document/9126007 |journal=2020 IEEE International Conference on Decentralized Applications and Infrastructures (DAPPS) |location=Oxford, UK |publisher=IEEE |doi=10.1109/DAPPS49028.2020.00005 |isbn=978-1-7281-6978-1 |via=IEEE Xplore}}</ref>
|-
|[[TikTok]]
|Integrated AI tools to track user behaviors even more for the purposes of selling to advertisers
|<ref>{{Cite news |last=Sato |first=Mia |date=Jun 3, 2025 |title=TikTok will give advertisers even more data on trends and users |url=https://www.theverge.com/news/678255/tiktok-advertiser-summit-ai-targeting-data-seo |access-date=Jun 25, 2025 |work=The Verge}}</ref>
|-
|[[uk.chicntech]]
|Selling fraudulent products on its platform
|<ref>{{Cite news |last=Harding |first=Scharon |date=Jun 3, 2025 |title=Shopper denied $51 refund for 20TB HDD that’s mostly a weighted plastic box |url=https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2025/06/man-buys-20tb-portable-hdd-for-51-son-breaks-the-news-that-its-a-fake/ |access-date=Jun 25, 2025 |work=Ars Technica}}</ref>
|-
|[[Facebook]], [[Yandex]]
|Automatic opt-in of user-generated content being used for the purposes of training AI.
|<ref>{{Cite web |last=Borgesius |first=Frederik |date=Apr 24, 2025 |title=Post on akademienl.social |url=https://akademienl.social/@Frederik_Borgesius/114392662340468118 |access-date=Jun 25, 2025 |website=akademienl.social}}</ref><ref>{{Cite news |date=Apr 24, 2025 |title=AP: kom nu in actie als je niet wil dat Meta AI traint met jouw data |url=https://autoriteitpersoonsgegevens.nl/actueel/ap-kom-nu-in-actie-als-je-niet-wil-dat-meta-ai-traint-met-jouw-data |access-date=Jun 25, 2025 |work=autoriteitpersoonsgegevens.nl}}</ref>
|-
|[[itch.io]], [[Night School Studios]], [[Netflix]]
|In September 2024, users who purchased Oxenfree on itch.io were warned that the game was going to be pulled from the platform on October 1st. Consumers would not be able to download the installers after this date, so they would lose access unless they had them backed up. Users speculated that Netflix, the parent company of the development studio, had ordered the move; however, no response from Netflix or the developers was ever published. This is particularly notable because it is against itch.io's terms of service: "Users shall retain a license to this content even after the content is removed from the Service."
|<ref>{{Cite web |last=itch corp |date=15 Apr 2023 |title=itch.io Terms of Service |url=https://itch.io/docs/legal/terms |url-status=live |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20240907004719/https://itch.io/docs/legal/terms |archive-date=7 Sep 2024 |access-date=27 Jun 2025 |website=itch.io}}</ref> <ref>{{Cite web |last=ShawnS |date=31 Jan 2025 |title=OXENFREE |url=https://delistedgames.com/oxenfree/ |url-status=live |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20250321070400/https://delistedgames.com/oxenfree/ |archive-date=21 Mar 2025 |access-date=27 Jun 2025 |website=Delisted Games}}</ref> <ref>{{Cite web |last=Colp |first=Tyler |date=9 Sep 2024 |title=Another reminder that your digital library isn't forever: Oxenfree will be completely removed from Itch.io next month |url=https://www.pcgamer.com/games/adventure/another-reminder-that-your-digital-library-isn-t-forever-oxenfree-will-be-completely-removed-from-itch-io-next-month/ |url-status=live |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20250523111125/https://www.pcgamer.com/games/adventure/another-reminder-that-your-digital-library-isn-t-forever-oxenfree-will-be-completely-removed-from-itch-io-next-month/ |archive-date=23 May 2025 |access-date=27 Jun 2025 |website=PC Gamer}}</ref>
|-
|[https://www.skystone.games/ Skystone Games]
|Boundary, a multiplayer online-only first-person shooter, got shut down just a year after its release by Skystone games, and its publishing rights relinquished, citing "ongoing delays and a lack of updates from the developer". Studio Surgical Scalpels (the developer) stated that the publisher decissions were "extremely sudden and unreasonable", and attempted to "regain the rights to boundary". The game has been offline for more than a year at the time of writing, and no refunds or communications to the userbase has been made by Skystone Games.
|<ref>{{Cite web |date=2024-06-19 |title=Boundary - End of service notice |url=https://store.steampowered.com/news/app/1364020/view/4209257868262605607?l=english |url-status=live |access-date=2025-07-07 |website=Steam}}</ref><ref>{{Cite web |date=2024-06-30 |title=Boundary Shut Down: Who's to Blame? |url=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kr8IhV1fovE |url-status=live}}</ref>
|-
|[[Microsoft]]
|Microsoft uses software engineers based in China to work on US Defense Department systems with laughably ineffective precautions. I think this is relevant in the context of Microsoft's attitude towards cloud security. In the past, master keys have been stolen by Chinese hackers and from my understanding, it's not even clear to what extent those groups still have access to Microsoft's internal systems, and by extension, Microsoft customers'. This needs more research though.
|<ref>{{Cite web |last=Dudley |first=Renee |date=2025-07-15 |title=A Little-Known Microsoft Program Could Expose the Defense Department to Chinese Hackers |url=https://www.propublica.org/article/microsoft-digital-escorts-pentagon-defense-department-china-hackers |website=ProRepublica}}</ref>
|-
|[[Microsoft]]
|Potentially related to: [[Microsoft's anticompetitive practices]]
Mysteriously banned the developer of LibreOffice from his Hotmail Account; Automated systems handled the appeal process and refused to restore access to his account, potentially harming LibreOffice's development.
|<ref>{{Cite news |last=Simms |first=Daniel |date=Jul 30, 2025 |title=Microsoft suddenly bans LibreOffice developer's email account, blocks appeal |url=https://www.techspot.com/news/108878-microsoft-suddenly-bans-libreoffice-developer-email-account-blocks.html |access-date=Aug 4, 2025 |work=TechSpot}}</ref><ref>{{Cite news |last=Beri |first=Devesh |date=Aug 1, 2025 |title=Microsoft Bans Profile Belonging to Developer Behind Free Microsoft Office Alternative |url=https://tech.yahoo.com/business/articles/microsoft-bans-profile-belonging-developer-204536148.html |access-date=Aug 4, 2025 |work=ExtremeTech}}</ref><ref>{{Cite news |last=Kumar |first=Rohit |date=Aug 3, 2025 |title=LibreOffice Developer Says Microsoft Blocked His Email Account Without Warning |url=https://www.alltechnerd.com/libreoffice-developer-says-microsoft-blocked-his-email-account-without-warning/ |access-date=Aug 4, 2025 |work=All Tech Nerd}}</ref>
|-
|[[Embodied]]
|This is case of "software tethering". Embodied's $799 companion robot Moxie permanently shut down once the company decided to shut down cloud services. According to Embodied's own website "Moxie relies on cloud connectivity for its core features, and it will not function once services end ... Our Terms of Service specify that services may be terminated at any time without prior notice."
|<ref>{{Cite news |last=Notopoulos |first=Katie |date=2024-12-11 |title=They bought an $800 AI robot for their kids. Now the company is shutting down — and children are having to say goodbye. |url=https://www.businessinsider.com/moxie-robot-toy-shutting-down-kids-embodied-goodbye-2024-12?op=1 |url-status=live |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20250816193431/https://www.businessinsider.com/moxie-robot-toy-shutting-down-kids-embodied-goodbye-2024-12?op=1 |archive-date=2025-08-16 |access-date=2025-08-16 |work=Business Insider}}</ref><ref>{{Cite web |title=Closing FAQs – Moxie Robot |url=https://moxierobot.com/pages/closing-faqs |url-status=live |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20241126054436/https://moxierobot.com/pages/closing-faqs |archive-date=2024-11-26 |access-date=2025-08-16 |website=moxierobot.com}}</ref><ref>{{Cite news |last=Degeurin |first=Mack |date=2024-12-10 |title=‘I love you… goodbye:’ What will happen when this companion robot suddenly dies? |url=https://www.popsci.com/technology/moxie-robot-offline/ |url-status=live |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20241212035257/https://www.popsci.com/technology/moxie-robot-offline/ |archive-date=2024-12-12 |access-date=2025-08-16 |work=Popular Science}}</ref>
|-
|UP3 By [[Jawbone]]
|Approximately 2011, Pioneering startup company from San Francisco, had revolutionary fitness trackers. In 2017 with no notice to customers they stole personal data and shut down app which in turn, bricked devices. Highly likely went bankrupt and sold to sister company to manipulate customer services and rights. Now owned by Aliph brands.
|
|-
|[[GoPro]] Hero 12
|GoPro Hero 12 requires the GoPro app to be installed before you can use the camera. Many currently used devices are not compatible with the app, therefore making use of the camera difficult to impossible for new owners or upon camera factory reset. There's also the question of what data the app collects and whether it requires login and or camera activation.
|
|-
|[[Internet radios]]
|I'd like a page where I can share information about internet radios "openness." Few allow you to enter a radio station's URL (which I would consider the least intrusive option). Most depend on third-party websites or apps; [https://www.sangean.com/uk/blog/149 some of which have already bricked devices].
|
|-
|Google TLS Changes
|Google's new requirements to certificate authorities require separate authority/signing chains to be used to issue Server Authentication and Client Authentication certificates. Therefore, starting 11 February 2026, Let's Encrypt will no longer include the Client Authentication EKU on default certificates
|
|-
|Devolo
|Devolo switches off servers and removes their app from stores for their "Home Control" system, thus severely reducing the functionality of their devices (apparently Z-Wave-based).
|<ref>{{Cite web |title= |url=https://www.golem.de/news/weiterbetrieb-verursacht-weitere-kosten-devolo-macht-smart-home-system-zum-grossteil-unbrauchbar-2508-199409.html |website=Golem [German]}}</ref>
|-
|Foxit Reader
|Updater uses dark pattern to trick unsuspecting users into installing a trial version of their paid product. The checkbox is enabled again by default with each update in the hope that the user misses it by accident at some point.
|
|-
|Lowes
|Lowes uses flock cameras and other AI powered cameras to collect data and build a profile on "prospective, current, or former Lowe's customers". Their cameras point away from their stores.
|<ref>{{Cite web |last=Koebler |first=Jason |date=2025-08-06 |title=Home Depot and Lowe's Share Data From Hundreds of AI Cameras With Cops |url=https://www.404media.co/home-depot-and-lowes-share-data-from-hundreds-of-ai-cameras-with-cops/ |url-status=live |archive-url=https://archive.ph/n6mTn |archive-date=2025-08-07 |access-date=2025-09-15 |website=404 Media}}</ref><ref>{{Cite web |date=2025-08-26 |title=Lowe’s U.S. Privacy Statement |url=https://www.lowes.com/l/about/privacy-and-security-statement |url-status=live |archive-url=https://archive.ph/eGh91 |archive-date=2025-08-05 |access-date=2025-09-15 |website=Lowes}}</ref>
|-
|[[H&R Block]]
|Marketing paid products as free, deleting users' tax data upon downgrading to free versions, and forcing users to contact support to get access to the free version of the tax filing software. FTC alleges coercive and obstructive techniques are used to make users pay for services they don't need as well.
|
|-
|[[Elegoo Centauri Carbon|Elegoo]]
|The Elegoo Centauri Carbon 3d printer has been proven to use open source Klipper software which requires them to publish their changes to the code.
|<ref>{{Cite web |date=2025-08-28 |title=PSA: Elegoo Centauri Carbon & GPL Compliance |url=https://freethecode.lol/ |url-status=live |access-date=2025-08-28 |website=PSA: Elegoo Centauri Carbon & GPL Compliance}}</ref>
|-
|iRobot
|Creator of Roomba automatic floor vacuums, CEO made statement in 2017 about selling customer's floor plan data. This company and the data was almost bought by Amazon, but fell through in 2024 after threats by EU Regulators
|<ref>{{Cite news |last=Wolfe |first=Jan |date=2017-07-28 |title=Roomba vacuum maker iRobot betting big on the 'smart' home |url=https://www.reuters.com/article/us-irobot-strategy-idUSKBN1A91A5/ |work=Reuters}}</ref><ref>{{Cite web |last=Zeff |first=Maxwell |date=2024-01-29 |title=Roomba Won’t Give Amazon a Map of Your Home After Merger Implodes |url=https://gizmodo.com/roomba-won-t-give-amazon-map-home-after-merger-implodes-1851205940 |website=Gizmodo}}</ref>
|-
|[[Mitsubishi Motors]]
|Mitsubishi Motors has a rich history of consumer protection, compliance issues and privacy breaches. These include concealing safety defects, falsifying fuel economy data, and being fined for false advertising. Following the trend of subscription services for the automotive industry, Mitsubishi paywalls built-in features including remote start, SOS, collision detection, and car tracking through its app Mitsubishi Connect subscription service.
|[https://www.autoevolution.com/news/mitsubishi-fined-42-million-by-japans-consumer-affairs-agency-115026.html?utm_source=chatgpt.com] [https://leakd.com/leaks/mitsubishi-motors-vietnam-customer-data-breached/?utm_source=chatgpt.com] [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitsubishi_Motors?utm_source=chatgpt.com] [https://violationtracker.goodjobsfirst.org/?order=pen_year&parent=mitsubishi-motors&sort=&utm_source=chatgpt.com][https://www.mitsubishi-motors.com/en/newsroom/newsrelease/2017/20171129_3.html?utm_source=chatgpt.com]
|-
|[[Hikvision]]
|Chinese surveillance camera manufacturer complicit in Uighur genocide which used to advertise recognition of praying and ramadan fasting among its selling points. Similarly to [[Flock License Plate Readers|Flock]], they are in use world wide and likely feed directly into the Chinese government's surveillance infrastructure and could conceivably be used to find dissidents world-wide. Recently, [https://netzpolitik.org/2025/hikvision-hersteller-der-hamburger-ki-ueberwachungskameras-ist-fuer-menschenrechtsverletzungen-bekannt/ the city of Hamburg has installed them] ([https://netzpolitik-org.translate.goog/2025/hikvision-hersteller-der-hamburger-ki-ueberwachungskameras-ist-fuer-menschenrechtsverletzungen-bekannt/?_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=de&_x_tr_pto=wapp Google Translate Version in English]).
|
|-
|Chromecast (Google)
|Chromecast has transitioned from a standalone product to one that requires the Google Home app for setup and control. This change prevents customers who either don't own a smartphone or prefer not to use the app from accessing their Chromecast devices. As a result, certain televisions—such as the Caixon EC43S1UA, which relied on built-in Chromecast functionality—can no longer be used as intended. This effectively removes a key feature from a product that was already purchased, diminishing its value or rendering it unusable altogether.
|
|-
|[[Apple]]
|$17 000 Apple Watch 18 karat gold edition out of support only 8 years after its introduction (not end of sale!). This means no software support, and, crucially, no repair or replacement parts. If the battery dies, the watch is but a paperweight.
|<ref>{{Cite web |title=Apple will no longer fix the $17,000 gold Apple Watch |url=https://www.theverge.com/2023/10/2/23900158/apple-watch-edition-gold-2015-obsolete-unsupported-beyonce |website=The Verge}}</ref>
|-
|[[Wireless Power Consortium]]
|After monopolizing wireless charging market Qi turned from an open standard into a proprietary.
Version 1.3 introduced "secure authentication between the transmitter and the receiver", i.e. in order to operate every charger must include an expensive proprietary chip licensed only to certified members. This results in increased development and manufacturing costs directly passed onto consumer. Version 2.2, unlike previous versions, "is available for WPC Members only".
|<ref>{{Cite web |title=Qi Certification Is Changing and We've Got You Covered |url=https://www.nxp.com/company/about-nxp/smarter-world-blog/BL-QI-CERTIFICATION-IS-CHANGING| website=NXP Semiconductors}}</ref>
<ref>{{Cite web |title=Download the Qi Specifications |url=https://www.wirelesspowerconsortium.com/knowledge-base/specifications/download-the-qi-specifications/| website=Wireless Power Consortium}}</ref>
|-
|[[Meta]]/[[WhatsApp]]
|In a new lawsuit, an ex-engineer alleges that 1500 engineers had unrestricted access to WhatsApp user data and that the company "failed to remedy the hacking and takeover of more than 100,000 accounts each day, ignoring his pleas and proposed fixes and choosing instead to prioritize user growth". (ongoing)
|[https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2025/sep/08/meta-user-data-lawsuit-whatsapp]
|-
|EcoVac
|Vacuum cleaner robots produced by company 'EcoVac' were found vulnerable to hacking over bluetooth allowing for remote control and access to camera feed. Security researcher Dennis Giese notified the company in December of 2023. In August of 2024, the issue was described by the company as "extremely rare in typical user environments and require specialized hacking tools and physical access to the device."
|<ref>{{Cite web |last=Fell |first=Julian |date=2024-10-04 |title=We hacked a robot vacuum — and could watch live through its camera - ABC News |url=https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-10-04/robot-vacuum-hacked-photos-camera-audio/104414020 |url-status=live |access-date=2025-09-10 |website=ABC News}}</ref><ref>{{Cite web |last=Franceschi-Bicchierai |first=Lorenzo |date=2024-08-09 |title=Ecovacs home robots can be hacked to spy on their owners, researchers say {{!}} TechCrunch |url=https://techcrunch.com/2024/08/09/ecovacs-home-robots-can-be-hacked-to-spy-on-their-owners-researchers-say/ |url-status=live}}</ref><ref>{{Cite web |last=Franceschi-Bicchierai |first=Lorenzo |date=2024-08-15 |title=Lorenzo Franceschi-Bicchierai on X: "Finally, Ecovacs responds to the researchers' findings, saying it won't fix the bugs. |url=https://x.com/lorenzofb/status/1823774980460388675}}</ref>
|-
|Axon
|Tazers sold with lease agreement that makes purchase effectively a subscription.
|[https://norwoodrecord.weebly.com/uploads/1/1/4/8/114832579/norwood_record_pages_1_to_12__4sep2025.pdf <nowiki>[69]</nowiki>]
|-
|Atlassian
|Users forced from on-premise to cloud only subscriptions
|<ref>{{Cite web |title=Ascend to the cloud: The next chapter for Atlassian and our customers |url=https://www.atlassian.com/blog/announcements/atlassian-ascend}}</ref>
|-
|Google
|Google apparently plans to reduce the interval of publishing source code of security patches they consider non-critical. This is another blow to the custom ROM community.
Right now we don't have these incidents organised chronologically, maybe we should have a table with a timeline of measures Google takes to enshittify and close down Android (more APIs moved to Play Services, Developer verification, withholding AOSP device trees for Pixel devices to mess with Graphene OS, now delayed source code disclosure). What's worst, they always cite safety as a reason.
|<ref>{{Cite web |title=Exclusive: Google wants to make Android phones safer by switching to ‘risk-based’ security updates |url=https://www.androidauthority.com/android-risk-based-security-updates-3597466/}}</ref>
|-
|Google, Mozilla, Apple, Microsoft, but largely Google-led
|Google Chrome, Mozilla Firefox, and Safari are removing XSLT 1.0 support, which could break critical parts of government's websites worldwide<ref>{{Cite web |last=Dimant |first=Dimitrii "Mamut" |date=2025-08-10 |title=XSLT removal will break multiple government and regulatory sites across the world #11582 |url=https://github.com/whatwg/html/issues/11582 |url-status=live |access-date=2025-10-25 |website=Github (specifically the Web Hypertext Application Technology Working Group's HTML standards repo, controlled by Mozilla, Google, Microsoft and Apple)}}</ref>. There are valid security reasons for them to want to stop supporting this 1999-era standard, however they have had 26+ years to update to a newer standard (such as the 2017-era 3.1 standard, which is backwards compatible and would allow these sites to continue to work<ref>{{Cite web |date=2017-03-21 |title="XML Path Language (XPath) 3.1: W3C Recommendation 21 March 2017" |url=https://www.w3.org/TR/xpath-31/ |url-status=live |website=https://www.w3.org/}}</ref>). The single unpaid developer maintaining these libraries has more or less retired after getting flooded with impossible to satisfy security requests from these companies<ref>{{Cite web |last=Wellnhoffer |first=Nick |date=2025-05-08 |title=Triaging security issues reported by third parties |url=https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/libxml2/-/issues/913 |url-status=live |access-date=2025-10-25 |website=https://gitlab.gnome.org}}</ref>. There is an existing project called XRUST to implement the 3.1 standard<ref>{{Cite web |date=2025-05-09 |title=XRust: XPath, XQuery, and XSLT for Rust |url=https://gitlab.gnome.org/World/Rust/markup-rs/xrust |url-status=live |access-date=2025-10-14 |website=https://gitlab.gnome.org}}</ref>, which is 2/3rds of the way through supporting all the features of 1.0 - the XSLT part fully supports all the 1.0 features at this point. XSLT is part of the W3C Consortium's open web standards for formatting and presenting XML, and is also how RSS works, so RSS feeds would stop working as well, disrupting the livelihoods of podcasters<ref>{{Cite web |last=Rijo |first=Luis |date=2025-08-20 |title=Google targets RSS feeds in new XSLT removal proposal |url=https://ppc.land/google-targets-rss-feeds-in-new-xslt-removal-proposal/ |url-status=live |access-date=2025-10-14 |website=PPC-Land}}</ref>. This has led to questions of who owns the web - the public (including the government) who paid for and laid down the highways / web infrastructure - or a handful of large corporations? <ref>{{Cite web |last=Branscombe |first=Mary |date=2025-09-01 |title=XSLT Debate Leads to Bigger Questions of Web Governance |url=https://thenewstack.io/xslt-debate-leads-to-bigger-questions-of-web-governance/ |access-date=2025-10-14 |website=The New Stack}}</ref>
|
|-
|McDonald's/Taylor
|McDonald's US mandates which ice cream machine has to be used by franchise licensees. The company that makes these machines uses deliberately obfuscated error codes to force restaurant owners to use their expensive tech service to fix them and reset the machines. The company makes more money from these "repairs" support than with actual sales. Not strictly end consumer, but the pattern warrants documenting imo.
A similar problem exists with Doremi (Dolby) cinema projectors where their DRM leads to a ridiculous number of actions breaking the so-called "marriage" (projector-media block unity), requiring a costly technician to reset it. This one needs sources researched, though, as I don't have one on hand.
|<ref>{{Cite web |title= |url=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2uCpY3tFTIA}}</ref>
|-
|Apple App Store
|Removal of likely legal apps designed to evade law enforcement agencies accused of illegal conduct and human rights violations upon request by authorities without court order, instead citing violations of store terms. This happened in Hong Kong in 2019 with Hong Kong Police during demonstrations and in the USA in 2025 with the ICE Block app.
|<ref>{{Cite web |title= |url=https://www.businessinsider.com/apple-iceblock-app-store-removed-2025-10}}</ref><ref>{{Cite web |title= |url=https://hksar.org/apple-removes-police-tracking-app-used-in-hong-kong-protests-from-its-app-store}}</ref>
|-
|Slack
|Slack threatened to deactivate the Slack workspace and delete all message history of a nonprofit unless they agreed to a price hike of $200k yearly and also pay an extra $50k within a week. There were no prior warnings from Slack. A few years prior to this incident, they had agreed to migrate from the free nonprofit plan to a $5k per year plan.
|<ref>{{Cite web |date=2025-09-18 |title=Slack is extorting us with a $195k/yr bill increase |url=https://skyfall.dev/posts/slack |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20250930075808/https://skyfall.dev/posts/slack |archive-date=2025-09-30}}</ref>
|-
|[[Cloudary Holdings Limited / Webnovel]]
|Terms of service with binding Arbitration.
|<ref>{{Cite web |title= |url=https://www.webnovel.com/terms_of_service}}</ref>
|-
|Neato (Vorwerk)
|Two years after taking over competitor Neato, Vorwerk closed down the Neato cloud services. Vacuum robots lose all app functionality and can only be started manually, which will cause them to do a full clean. No off-limits zones, no rooms, no barriers, only everything or nothing. Neato robots are not supported by Valetudo.
|<ref>{{Cite web |title= |url=https://support.neatorobotics.com/support/solutions/articles/204000073686}}</ref>
|-
|The Japan Times
|The Japan Times uses DMCA to take down an open source study resource for Genki and Quartet workbooks.
|<ref>{{Cite web |last=Clydesdale |first=Seth |date=2025-09-11 |title=Important Information Regarding Genki and Quartet Study Resources |url=https://ko-fi.com/post/Important-Information-Regarding-Genki-and-Quartet-D1D21L4B1S}}</ref><ref>{{Cite web |title=Update Regarding Genki and Quartet Study Resources DMCA Situation |url=https://ko-fi.com/post/Update-Regarding-Genki-and-Quartet-Study-Resources-Y8Y21M1F5E}}</ref><ref>{{Cite web |date=2025-10-03 |title=All Exercises for Genki/Quartet Study Resources Have Been Removed |url=https://ko-fi.com/post/All-Exercises-for-GenkiQuartet-Study-Resources-Wi-R6R81M8LLN}}</ref>
|-
|E621
|Terms of service that require agreement to forced arbitration to use the website.
|<ref>{{Cite web |date=2025-10-02 |title=E621 |url=https://e621.net/ |url-status=live |website=E621}}</ref>
|-
|Apple, Beats
|No support for Powerbeats (4th generation) despite the headphones being under 5 years from when Apple last distributed the product for sale. The product is not listed as discontinued or vintage, and by Apple's own guidelines, should be eligible for replacement parts and repair. OEM replacement eartips cannot be purchased for any Beats earphones.
|<ref>{{Cite web |title=Obtaining service for your Apple product after an expired warranty |url=https://support.apple.com/en-us/102772 |url-status=live |access-date=2025-10-18}}</ref><ref>{{Cite web |title=Beats Repair and Service |url=https://support.apple.com/beats/repair |url-status=live |access-date=2025-10-18}}</ref><ref>{{Cite web |title=Apple store search for eartips |url=https://www.apple.com/us/search/eartips?src=alp |url-status=live |access-date=2025-10-18}}</ref>
|-
|[[Sony]]
|The PSVita required a proprietary memory system and came with no usable memory natively; as a result, to effectively use the console, one had to purchase official, expensive memory cards from Sony. The PCH-1000 also had a proprietary charging port, making it nearly impossible to replace the cable should it break once Sony's support for the console dwindled. The charging port issue was later addressed via an updated console which changed the port to a microUSB connection. However, the expensive proprietary memory card issue remained and was exacerbated by Sony's blockage of using the PCH-2000's 1GB of storage while a memory card was inserted. Sony's continued efforts to block homebrew via firmware updates limited the owner's ability to continue using the device years after support was dropped for the console.
|<ref>{{Cite web |title=PlayStation Vita Launches From 22 February 2012 |url=https://blog.playstation.com/archive/2011/10/19/playstation-vita-launches-from-22-february-2012/ |url-status=dead |archive-url=https://blog.playstation.com/archive/2011/10/19/playstation-vita-launches-from-22-february-2012/ |archive-date=2011-10-19 |access-date=2025-10-18 |website=Playstation.Blog}}</ref><ref>{{Cite web |title=PS Vita Slim internal storage not usable with a memory card |url=https://web.archive.org/web/20131013181238/http://www.justpushstart.com/2013/10/ps-vita-slim-internal-storage-usable-memory-card/ |url-status=dead |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20131013181238/http://www.justpushstart.com/2013/10/ps-vita-slim-internal-storage-usable-memory-card/ |archive-date=2013-10-13 |website=Just Push Start}}</ref><ref>{{Cite web |title=Types of card media |url=https://manuals.playstation.net/document/gb/psvita/basic/media.html |url-status=dead |archive-url=https://manuals.playstation.net/document/gb/psvita/basic/media.html |archive-date=2012-08-29 |access-date=2025-10-18 |website=Playstation}}</ref><ref>{{Cite web |title=Meet the Hackers Breathing New Life Into Sony’s Abandoned PlayStation Vita |url=https://www.vice.com/en/article/meet-the-hackers-breathing-new-life-into-sonys-abandoned-playstation-vita/? |url-status=live |access-date=2025-10-18 |website=Vice}}</ref>
|}

==List of themes not yet covered==
{| class="wikitable"
|+
!Theme
!Summary of Theme
!Refs
|-
|[[Ad block]]
|User customization of information presentation. For instance, to selectively not display information of little interest to the user, or content the user deems harmful or offensive, or to conserve resources by not processing some information.
Why include: Advertising is pervasive online, and increasingly showing up in devices. Many sources, including US government agencies, suggest ad block as a way of enhancing security. Ad block can help consumers own their own devices by controlling what they do. There are efforts to use copyright law (e.g., DMCA/spotify/revanced, and German court case) to force you to run programs on your device. See also, [[Advertising overload]]
|[https://www.theregister.com/2025/08/15/german_court_ruling_ad_blocking/]
|-
|[[Cloud]]
|Somebody else's computer. See also: [[Self-hosting|Self-hosting,]] [[Software as a service]] Examples: [[OneDrive]], [[ICloud]], [[Ring]]
Issues: Legal protections your vs. somebody else's computer. Recovery when lose credentials. etc.
|
|}

==List of companies doing the right thing==
It would be helpful to include examples of companies doing the right thing, even if they aren't, strictly speaking, consumer products.
{| class="wikitable"
|+
!Company
!Good deed
!Refs
|-
|Tektronix
|Provided extensive product data on unsupported products to a museum, vintageTEK, and thus to tekwiki and the rest of the community.
|<ref>{{Cite web |last=Lenihan |first=Thomas F. |date=2012-02-28 |title=Copyright Notice |url=https://vintagetek.org/copyright-notice/ |url-status=live |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20250828004431/https://vintagetek.org/copyright-notice/ |archive-date=2025-08-28 |access-date=2025-10-18 |website=vintageTEK museum}}</ref>
|}

==See Also==

*[[Louis Rossmann - Video Directory]]
*[[Other Channels - Video Directory|Other Channels - VIdeo Directory]]

==Reference List==
<references />
[[Category:Sources]]

Article suggestions

2025-10-18T21:12:12Z

CorpoBlight: section for companies doing the right thing

This page is dedicated towards providing a communal list for users to submit potential articles to feature on the wiki, and to give editors inspiration on what pages they might want to add to the wiki. If you create an article based on an entry from this list, or see that someone else has done so, please make sure to delete the row from this page in order to prevent confusion.

Sources should be inserted within the 'refs' section of the table. If using the visual editor, take advantage of '<nowiki/>'''insert reference'''<nowiki/>' via ''''ctrl + shift + k'''<nowiki/>' so that the sources are quick to add to future articles. If you are using the source editor, feel free to copy and paste the formatting from other correctly formatted references on the page. The more sources you include with an article idea, the more likely it is that others will pick the article idea up and run with it, so please attempt to include a good variety of descriptive sources!

Please take note of the wiki's [[Consumer Rights Wiki:Inclusion guidelines|Inclusion criteria]] when submitting article suggestions. If you see article suggestions here which do not fit the Wiki, feel free to remove them, leaving your reasoning in an edit note.

If you are an editor looking for further inspiration to write an article, you can also check out the [[Louis Rossmann - Video Directory|Louis Rossmann video directory]] for a good collection of potential articles.

==Example==
Below is an example of what an entry should appear as:
{| class="wikitable"
|+
!Company
!Summary of Incident
!Refs
|-
|[[Nintendo]]
|In 2025, the company Nintendo stripped Switch 2 consoles that used the MIG switch cartridge of all online functionality
|<ref name=":3">{{Cite web |last=Scattered Brain |date=Jun 16, 2025 |title=Soo... Nintendo banned my Switch 2 (Don't try the MIG Switch!) |url=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ExgYTA18_vo&t=656s |access-date=Jun 18, 2025 |website=[[YouTube]]}}</ref><ref name=":0">{{Cite news |last=Orland |first=Kyle |date=Jun 17, 2025 |title=Switch 2 users report online console bans after running personal game “backups” |url=https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2025/06/playing-personal-game-backups-could-get-your-switch-2-banned-by-nintendo/ |access-date=Jun 19, 2025 |work=Ars Technica}}</ref>
|}

==List of incidents not yet covered==
{| class="wikitable"
!Company
!Summary of Incident
!Refs
|-
|[[Audi]]
|Subscription-based paywalling of basic features of the Audi A3 in the EU and the UK.
|<ref>{{Cite web |last=MickDrivesCars |date=2025-07-28 |title=How to ruin your car brand |url=https://youtu.be/ueHgn6UTZjk |url-status=live |website=YouTube}}</ref><ref>{{Cite news |last=Haefner |first=Morgan |last2=Hodge |first2=Lawrence |date=2024-03-14 |title=Audi wants buyers to pay for basic car features |url=https://qz.com/audi-a3-buyers-must-subscribe-to-use-basic-car-features-1851333470 |url-status=live |archive-url=https://archive.ph/B1SHT |archive-date=2025-08-25 |access-date=2025-08-25 |work=Quartz}}</ref><ref>{{Cite news |last=Hundal |first=Thomas |date=2024-03-13 |title=Audi Wants European A3 Customers To Subscribe To Features That Come Standard On A Base Toyota Corolla |url=https://www.theautopian.com/audi-wants-european-a3-customers-to-subscribe-to-features-that-come-standard-on-a-base-toyota-corolla/ |url-status=live |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20250208095611/https://www.theautopian.com/audi-wants-european-a3-customers-to-subscribe-to-features-that-come-standard-on-a-base-toyota-corolla/ |archive-date=2025-02-08 |access-date=2025-08-25 |work=The Autopian}}</ref>
|-
|[[ABC Financial Services]]
|Manages memberships and recurring service subscriptions for other companies. Prevents customers from being able to cancel a service by locking them into a never-ending cycle of auto renewals, and not allowing the customer to opt out of auto renewal.
|-
|LBRY Foundation, Odysee
|Community first decentralization & Odysseys plan to enable censorship by switching away from the opensource LBRY network.
|<ref>{{Cite web |title=The LBRY Foundation |url=https://lbry.org/ |url-status=live |access-date=08 Aug 2025 |quote=The LBRY community invites everyone to join us in building a more free and open way to share content and information online.}}</ref><ref name=":2">{{Cite news |last=Watson |first=RT |date=06 June 2024 |title=Decentralized YouTube alternative Odysee acquired by Forward Research despite content concerns |url=https://www.theblock.co/post/298888/decentralized-youtube-alternative-odysee-acquired-by-forward-research-despite-content-concerns |url-status=live |access-date=8/16/25 |work=The Block}}</ref><ref>{{Cite journal |last=Li |first=Jun |last2=Grintsvayg |first2=Alex |last3=Kauffman |first3=Jeremy |last4=Fleming |first4=Charles |date=2020 |title=LBRY: A Blockchain-Based Decentralized Digital Content Marketplace |url=https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/document/9126007 |journal=2020 IEEE International Conference on Decentralized Applications and Infrastructures (DAPPS) |location=Oxford, UK |publisher=IEEE |doi=10.1109/DAPPS49028.2020.00005 |isbn=978-1-7281-6978-1 |via=IEEE Xplore}}</ref>
|-
|[[TikTok]]
|Integrated AI tools to track user behaviors even more for the purposes of selling to advertisers
|<ref>{{Cite news |last=Sato |first=Mia |date=Jun 3, 2025 |title=TikTok will give advertisers even more data on trends and users |url=https://www.theverge.com/news/678255/tiktok-advertiser-summit-ai-targeting-data-seo |access-date=Jun 25, 2025 |work=The Verge}}</ref>
|-
|[[uk.chicntech]]
|Selling fraudulent products on its platform
|<ref>{{Cite news |last=Harding |first=Scharon |date=Jun 3, 2025 |title=Shopper denied $51 refund for 20TB HDD that’s mostly a weighted plastic box |url=https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2025/06/man-buys-20tb-portable-hdd-for-51-son-breaks-the-news-that-its-a-fake/ |access-date=Jun 25, 2025 |work=Ars Technica}}</ref>
|-
|[[Facebook]], [[Yandex]]
|Automatic opt-in of user-generated content being used for the purposes of training AI.
|<ref>{{Cite web |last=Borgesius |first=Frederik |date=Apr 24, 2025 |title=Post on akademienl.social |url=https://akademienl.social/@Frederik_Borgesius/114392662340468118 |access-date=Jun 25, 2025 |website=akademienl.social}}</ref><ref>{{Cite news |date=Apr 24, 2025 |title=AP: kom nu in actie als je niet wil dat Meta AI traint met jouw data |url=https://autoriteitpersoonsgegevens.nl/actueel/ap-kom-nu-in-actie-als-je-niet-wil-dat-meta-ai-traint-met-jouw-data |access-date=Jun 25, 2025 |work=autoriteitpersoonsgegevens.nl}}</ref>
|-
|[[itch.io]], [[Night School Studios]], [[Netflix]]
|In September 2024, users who purchased Oxenfree on itch.io were warned that the game was going to be pulled from the platform on October 1st. Consumers would not be able to download the installers after this date, so they would lose access unless they had them backed up. Users speculated that Netflix, the parent company of the development studio, had ordered the move; however, no response from Netflix or the developers was ever published. This is particularly notable because it is against itch.io's terms of service: "Users shall retain a license to this content even after the content is removed from the Service."
|<ref>{{Cite web |last=itch corp |date=15 Apr 2023 |title=itch.io Terms of Service |url=https://itch.io/docs/legal/terms |url-status=live |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20240907004719/https://itch.io/docs/legal/terms |archive-date=7 Sep 2024 |access-date=27 Jun 2025 |website=itch.io}}</ref> <ref>{{Cite web |last=ShawnS |date=31 Jan 2025 |title=OXENFREE |url=https://delistedgames.com/oxenfree/ |url-status=live |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20250321070400/https://delistedgames.com/oxenfree/ |archive-date=21 Mar 2025 |access-date=27 Jun 2025 |website=Delisted Games}}</ref> <ref>{{Cite web |last=Colp |first=Tyler |date=9 Sep 2024 |title=Another reminder that your digital library isn't forever: Oxenfree will be completely removed from Itch.io next month |url=https://www.pcgamer.com/games/adventure/another-reminder-that-your-digital-library-isn-t-forever-oxenfree-will-be-completely-removed-from-itch-io-next-month/ |url-status=live |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20250523111125/https://www.pcgamer.com/games/adventure/another-reminder-that-your-digital-library-isn-t-forever-oxenfree-will-be-completely-removed-from-itch-io-next-month/ |archive-date=23 May 2025 |access-date=27 Jun 2025 |website=PC Gamer}}</ref>
|-
|[https://www.skystone.games/ Skystone Games]
|Boundary, a multiplayer online-only first-person shooter, got shut down just a year after its release by Skystone games, and its publishing rights relinquished, citing "ongoing delays and a lack of updates from the developer". Studio Surgical Scalpels (the developer) stated that the publisher decissions were "extremely sudden and unreasonable", and attempted to "regain the rights to boundary". The game has been offline for more than a year at the time of writing, and no refunds or communications to the userbase has been made by Skystone Games.
|<ref>{{Cite web |date=2024-06-19 |title=Boundary - End of service notice |url=https://store.steampowered.com/news/app/1364020/view/4209257868262605607?l=english |url-status=live |access-date=2025-07-07 |website=Steam}}</ref><ref>{{Cite web |date=2024-06-30 |title=Boundary Shut Down: Who's to Blame? |url=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kr8IhV1fovE |url-status=live}}</ref>
|-
|[[Microsoft]]
|Microsoft uses software engineers based in China to work on US Defense Department systems with laughably ineffective precautions. I think this is relevant in the context of Microsoft's attitude towards cloud security. In the past, master keys have been stolen by Chinese hackers and from my understanding, it's not even clear to what extent those groups still have access to Microsoft's internal systems, and by extension, Microsoft customers'. This needs more research though.
|<ref>{{Cite web |last=Dudley |first=Renee |date=2025-07-15 |title=A Little-Known Microsoft Program Could Expose the Defense Department to Chinese Hackers |url=https://www.propublica.org/article/microsoft-digital-escorts-pentagon-defense-department-china-hackers |website=ProRepublica}}</ref>
|-
|[[Microsoft]]
|Potentially related to: [[Microsoft's anticompetitive practices]]
Mysteriously banned the developer of LibreOffice from his Hotmail Account; Automated systems handled the appeal process and refused to restore access to his account, potentially harming LibreOffice's development.
|<ref>{{Cite news |last=Simms |first=Daniel |date=Jul 30, 2025 |title=Microsoft suddenly bans LibreOffice developer's email account, blocks appeal |url=https://www.techspot.com/news/108878-microsoft-suddenly-bans-libreoffice-developer-email-account-blocks.html |access-date=Aug 4, 2025 |work=TechSpot}}</ref><ref>{{Cite news |last=Beri |first=Devesh |date=Aug 1, 2025 |title=Microsoft Bans Profile Belonging to Developer Behind Free Microsoft Office Alternative |url=https://tech.yahoo.com/business/articles/microsoft-bans-profile-belonging-developer-204536148.html |access-date=Aug 4, 2025 |work=ExtremeTech}}</ref><ref>{{Cite news |last=Kumar |first=Rohit |date=Aug 3, 2025 |title=LibreOffice Developer Says Microsoft Blocked His Email Account Without Warning |url=https://www.alltechnerd.com/libreoffice-developer-says-microsoft-blocked-his-email-account-without-warning/ |access-date=Aug 4, 2025 |work=All Tech Nerd}}</ref>
|-
|[[Embodied]]
|This is case of "software tethering". Embodied's $799 companion robot Moxie permanently shut down once the company decided to shut down cloud services. According to Embodied's own website "Moxie relies on cloud connectivity for its core features, and it will not function once services end ... Our Terms of Service specify that services may be terminated at any time without prior notice."
|<ref>{{Cite news |last=Notopoulos |first=Katie |date=2024-12-11 |title=They bought an $800 AI robot for their kids. Now the company is shutting down — and children are having to say goodbye. |url=https://www.businessinsider.com/moxie-robot-toy-shutting-down-kids-embodied-goodbye-2024-12?op=1 |url-status=live |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20250816193431/https://www.businessinsider.com/moxie-robot-toy-shutting-down-kids-embodied-goodbye-2024-12?op=1 |archive-date=2025-08-16 |access-date=2025-08-16 |work=Business Insider}}</ref><ref>{{Cite web |title=Closing FAQs – Moxie Robot |url=https://moxierobot.com/pages/closing-faqs |url-status=live |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20241126054436/https://moxierobot.com/pages/closing-faqs |archive-date=2024-11-26 |access-date=2025-08-16 |website=moxierobot.com}}</ref><ref>{{Cite news |last=Degeurin |first=Mack |date=2024-12-10 |title=‘I love you… goodbye:’ What will happen when this companion robot suddenly dies? |url=https://www.popsci.com/technology/moxie-robot-offline/ |url-status=live |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20241212035257/https://www.popsci.com/technology/moxie-robot-offline/ |archive-date=2024-12-12 |access-date=2025-08-16 |work=Popular Science}}</ref>
|-
|UP3 By [[Jawbone]]
|Approximately 2011, Pioneering startup company from San Francisco, had revolutionary fitness trackers. In 2017 with no notice to customers they stole personal data and shut down app which in turn, bricked devices. Highly likely went bankrupt and sold to sister company to manipulate customer services and rights. Now owned by Aliph brands.
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|[[GoPro]] Hero 12
|GoPro Hero 12 requires the GoPro app to be installed before you can use the camera. Many currently used devices are not compatible with the app, therefore making use of the camera difficult to impossible for new owners or upon camera factory reset. There's also the question of what data the app collects and whether it requires login and or camera activation.
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|-
|[[Internet radios]]
|I'd like a page where I can share information about internet radios "openness." Few allow you to enter a radio station's URL (which I would consider the least intrusive option). Most depend on third-party websites or apps; [https://www.sangean.com/uk/blog/149 some of which have already bricked devices].
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|-
|Google TLS Changes
|Google's new requirements to certificate authorities require separate authority/signing chains to be used to issue Server Authentication and Client Authentication certificates. Therefore, starting 11 February 2026, Let's Encrypt will no longer include the Client Authentication EKU on default certificates
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|Devolo
|Devolo switches off servers and removes their app from stores for their "Home Control" system, thus severely reducing the functionality of their devices (apparently Z-Wave-based).
|<ref>{{Cite web |title= |url=https://www.golem.de/news/weiterbetrieb-verursacht-weitere-kosten-devolo-macht-smart-home-system-zum-grossteil-unbrauchbar-2508-199409.html |website=Golem [German]}}</ref>
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|Foxit Reader
|Updater uses dark pattern to trick unsuspecting users into installing a trial version of their paid product. The checkbox is enabled again by default with each update in the hope that the user misses it by accident at some point.
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|Lowes
|Lowes uses flock cameras and other AI powered cameras to collect data and build a profile on "prospective, current, or former Lowe's customers". Their cameras point away from their stores.
|<ref>{{Cite web |last=Koebler |first=Jason |date=2025-08-06 |title=Home Depot and Lowe's Share Data From Hundreds of AI Cameras With Cops |url=https://www.404media.co/home-depot-and-lowes-share-data-from-hundreds-of-ai-cameras-with-cops/ |url-status=live |archive-url=https://archive.ph/n6mTn |archive-date=2025-08-07 |access-date=2025-09-15 |website=404 Media}}</ref><ref>{{Cite web |date=2025-08-26 |title=Lowe’s U.S. Privacy Statement |url=https://www.lowes.com/l/about/privacy-and-security-statement |url-status=live |archive-url=https://archive.ph/eGh91 |archive-date=2025-08-05 |access-date=2025-09-15 |website=Lowes}}</ref>
|-
|[[H&R Block]]
|Marketing paid products as free, deleting users' tax data upon downgrading to free versions, and forcing users to contact support to get access to the free version of the tax filing software. FTC alleges coercive and obstructive techniques are used to make users pay for services they don't need as well.
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|-
|[[Elegoo Centauri Carbon|Elegoo]]
|The Elegoo Centauri Carbon 3d printer has been proven to use open source Klipper software which requires them to publish their changes to the code.
|<ref>{{Cite web |date=2025-08-28 |title=PSA: Elegoo Centauri Carbon & GPL Compliance |url=https://freethecode.lol/ |url-status=live |access-date=2025-08-28 |website=PSA: Elegoo Centauri Carbon & GPL Compliance}}</ref>
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|iRobot
|Creator of Roomba automatic floor vacuums, CEO made statement in 2017 about selling customer's floor plan data. This company and the data was almost bought by Amazon, but fell through in 2024 after threats by EU Regulators
|<ref>{{Cite news |last=Wolfe |first=Jan |date=2017-07-28 |title=Roomba vacuum maker iRobot betting big on the 'smart' home |url=https://www.reuters.com/article/us-irobot-strategy-idUSKBN1A91A5/ |work=Reuters}}</ref><ref>{{Cite web |last=Zeff |first=Maxwell |date=2024-01-29 |title=Roomba Won’t Give Amazon a Map of Your Home After Merger Implodes |url=https://gizmodo.com/roomba-won-t-give-amazon-map-home-after-merger-implodes-1851205940 |website=Gizmodo}}</ref>
|-
|[[Mitsubishi Motors]]
|Mitsubishi Motors has a rich history of consumer protection, compliance issues and privacy breaches. These include concealing safety defects, falsifying fuel economy data, and being fined for false advertising. Following the trend of subscription services for the automotive industry, Mitsubishi paywalls built-in features including remote start, SOS, collision detection, and car tracking through its app Mitsubishi Connect subscription service.
|[https://www.autoevolution.com/news/mitsubishi-fined-42-million-by-japans-consumer-affairs-agency-115026.html?utm_source=chatgpt.com] [https://leakd.com/leaks/mitsubishi-motors-vietnam-customer-data-breached/?utm_source=chatgpt.com] [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitsubishi_Motors?utm_source=chatgpt.com] [https://violationtracker.goodjobsfirst.org/?order=pen_year&parent=mitsubishi-motors&sort=&utm_source=chatgpt.com][https://www.mitsubishi-motors.com/en/newsroom/newsrelease/2017/20171129_3.html?utm_source=chatgpt.com]
|-
|[[Hikvision]]
|Chinese surveillance camera manufacturer complicit in Uighur genocide which used to advertise recognition of praying and ramadan fasting among its selling points. Similarly to [[Flock License Plate Readers|Flock]], they are in use world wide and likely feed directly into the Chinese government's surveillance infrastructure and could conceivably be used to find dissidents world-wide. Recently, [https://netzpolitik.org/2025/hikvision-hersteller-der-hamburger-ki-ueberwachungskameras-ist-fuer-menschenrechtsverletzungen-bekannt/ the city of Hamburg has installed them] ([https://netzpolitik-org.translate.goog/2025/hikvision-hersteller-der-hamburger-ki-ueberwachungskameras-ist-fuer-menschenrechtsverletzungen-bekannt/?_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=de&_x_tr_pto=wapp Google Translate Version in English]).
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|Chromecast (Google)
|Chromecast has transitioned from a standalone product to one that requires the Google Home app for setup and control. This change prevents customers who either don't own a smartphone or prefer not to use the app from accessing their Chromecast devices. As a result, certain televisions—such as the Caixon EC43S1UA, which relied on built-in Chromecast functionality—can no longer be used as intended. This effectively removes a key feature from a product that was already purchased, diminishing its value or rendering it unusable altogether.
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|-
|[[Apple]]
|$17 000 Apple Watch 18 karat gold edition out of support only 8 years after its introduction (not end of sale!). This means no software support, and, crucially, no repair or replacement parts. If the battery dies, the watch is but a paperweight.
|<ref>{{Cite web |title=Apple will no longer fix the $17,000 gold Apple Watch |url=https://www.theverge.com/2023/10/2/23900158/apple-watch-edition-gold-2015-obsolete-unsupported-beyonce |website=The Verge}}</ref>
|-
|[[Wireless Power Consortium]]
|After monopolizing wireless charging market Qi turned from an open standard into a proprietary.
Version 1.3 introduced "secure authentication between the transmitter and the receiver", i.e. in order to operate every charger must include an expensive proprietary chip licensed only to certified members. This results in increased development and manufacturing costs directly passed onto consumer. Version 2.2, unlike previous versions, "is available for WPC Members only".
|<ref>{{Cite web |title=Qi Certification Is Changing and We've Got You Covered |url=https://www.nxp.com/company/about-nxp/smarter-world-blog/BL-QI-CERTIFICATION-IS-CHANGING| website=NXP Semiconductors}}</ref>
<ref>{{Cite web |title=Download the Qi Specifications |url=https://www.wirelesspowerconsortium.com/knowledge-base/specifications/download-the-qi-specifications/| website=Wireless Power Consortium}}</ref>
|-
|[[Meta]]/[[WhatsApp]]
|In a new lawsuit, an ex-engineer alleges that 1500 engineers had unrestricted access to WhatsApp user data and that the company "failed to remedy the hacking and takeover of more than 100,000 accounts each day, ignoring his pleas and proposed fixes and choosing instead to prioritize user growth". (ongoing)
|[https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2025/sep/08/meta-user-data-lawsuit-whatsapp]
|-
|EcoVac
|Vacuum cleaner robots produced by company 'EcoVac' were found vulnerable to hacking over bluetooth allowing for remote control and access to camera feed. Security researcher Dennis Giese notified the company in December of 2023. In August of 2024, the issue was described by the company as "extremely rare in typical user environments and require specialized hacking tools and physical access to the device."
|<ref>{{Cite web |last=Fell |first=Julian |date=2024-10-04 |title=We hacked a robot vacuum — and could watch live through its camera - ABC News |url=https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-10-04/robot-vacuum-hacked-photos-camera-audio/104414020 |url-status=live |access-date=2025-09-10 |website=ABC News}}</ref><ref>{{Cite web |last=Franceschi-Bicchierai |first=Lorenzo |date=2024-08-09 |title=Ecovacs home robots can be hacked to spy on their owners, researchers say {{!}} TechCrunch |url=https://techcrunch.com/2024/08/09/ecovacs-home-robots-can-be-hacked-to-spy-on-their-owners-researchers-say/ |url-status=live}}</ref><ref>{{Cite web |last=Franceschi-Bicchierai |first=Lorenzo |date=2024-08-15 |title=Lorenzo Franceschi-Bicchierai on X: "Finally, Ecovacs responds to the researchers' findings, saying it won't fix the bugs. |url=https://x.com/lorenzofb/status/1823774980460388675}}</ref>
|-
|Axon
|Tazers sold with lease agreement that makes purchase effectively a subscription.
|[https://norwoodrecord.weebly.com/uploads/1/1/4/8/114832579/norwood_record_pages_1_to_12__4sep2025.pdf <nowiki>[69]</nowiki>]
|-
|Atlassian
|Users forced from on-premise to cloud only subscriptions
|<ref>{{Cite web |title=Ascend to the cloud: The next chapter for Atlassian and our customers |url=https://www.atlassian.com/blog/announcements/atlassian-ascend}}</ref>
|-
|Google
|Google apparently plans to reduce the interval of publishing source code of security patches they consider non-critical. This is another blow to the custom ROM community.
Right now we don't have these incidents organised chronologically, maybe we should have a table with a timeline of measures Google takes to enshittify and close down Android (more APIs moved to Play Services, Developer verification, withholding AOSP device trees for Pixel devices to mess with Graphene OS, now delayed source code disclosure). What's worst, they always cite safety as a reason.
|<ref>{{Cite web |title=Exclusive: Google wants to make Android phones safer by switching to ‘risk-based’ security updates |url=https://www.androidauthority.com/android-risk-based-security-updates-3597466/}}</ref>
|-
|Google, Mozilla, Apple, Microsoft, but largely Google-led
|Google Chrome, Mozilla Firefox, and Safari are removing XSLT 1.0 support, which could break critical parts of government's websites worldwide<ref>{{Cite web |last=Dimant |first=Dimitrii "Mamut" |date=2025-08-10 |title=XSLT removal will break multiple government and regulatory sites across the world #11582 |url=https://github.com/whatwg/html/issues/11582 |url-status=live |access-date=2025-10-25 |website=Github (specifically the Web Hypertext Application Technology Working Group's HTML standards repo, controlled by Mozilla, Google, Microsoft and Apple)}}</ref>. There are valid security reasons for them to want to stop supporting this 1999-era standard, however they have had 26+ years to update to a newer standard (such as the 2017-era 3.1 standard, which is backwards compatible and would allow these sites to continue to work<ref>{{Cite web |date=2017-03-21 |title="XML Path Language (XPath) 3.1: W3C Recommendation 21 March 2017" |url=https://www.w3.org/TR/xpath-31/ |url-status=live |website=https://www.w3.org/}}</ref>). The single unpaid developer maintaining these libraries has more or less retired after getting flooded with impossible to satisfy security requests from these companies<ref>{{Cite web |last=Wellnhoffer |first=Nick |date=2025-05-08 |title=Triaging security issues reported by third parties |url=https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/libxml2/-/issues/913 |url-status=live |access-date=2025-10-25 |website=https://gitlab.gnome.org}}</ref>. There is an existing project called XRUST to implement the 3.1 standard<ref>{{Cite web |date=2025-05-09 |title=XRust: XPath, XQuery, and XSLT for Rust |url=https://gitlab.gnome.org/World/Rust/markup-rs/xrust |url-status=live |access-date=2025-10-14 |website=https://gitlab.gnome.org}}</ref>, which is 2/3rds of the way through supporting all the features of 1.0 - the XSLT part fully supports all the 1.0 features at this point. XSLT is part of the W3C Consortium's open web standards for formatting and presenting XML, and is also how RSS works, so RSS feeds would stop working as well, disrupting the livelihoods of podcasters<ref>{{Cite web |last=Rijo |first=Luis |date=2025-08-20 |title=Google targets RSS feeds in new XSLT removal proposal |url=https://ppc.land/google-targets-rss-feeds-in-new-xslt-removal-proposal/ |url-status=live |access-date=2025-10-14 |website=PPC-Land}}</ref>. This has led to questions of who owns the web - the public (including the government) who paid for and laid down the highways / web infrastructure - or a handful of large corporations? <ref>{{Cite web |last=Branscombe |first=Mary |date=2025-09-01 |title=XSLT Debate Leads to Bigger Questions of Web Governance |url=https://thenewstack.io/xslt-debate-leads-to-bigger-questions-of-web-governance/ |access-date=2025-10-14 |website=The New Stack}}</ref>
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|-
|McDonald's/Taylor
|McDonald's US mandates which ice cream machine has to be used by franchise licensees. The company that makes these machines uses deliberately obfuscated error codes to force restaurant owners to use their expensive tech service to fix them and reset the machines. The company makes more money from these "repairs" support than with actual sales. Not strictly end consumer, but the pattern warrants documenting imo.
A similar problem exists with Doremi (Dolby) cinema projectors where their DRM leads to a ridiculous number of actions breaking the so-called "marriage" (projector-media block unity), requiring a costly technician to reset it. This one needs sources researched, though, as I don't have one on hand.
|<ref>{{Cite web |title= |url=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2uCpY3tFTIA}}</ref>
|-
|Apple App Store
|Removal of likely legal apps designed to evade law enforcement agencies accused of illegal conduct and human rights violations upon request by authorities without court order, instead citing violations of store terms. This happened in Hong Kong in 2019 with Hong Kong Police during demonstrations and in the USA in 2025 with the ICE Block app.
|<ref>{{Cite web |title= |url=https://www.businessinsider.com/apple-iceblock-app-store-removed-2025-10}}</ref><ref>{{Cite web |title= |url=https://hksar.org/apple-removes-police-tracking-app-used-in-hong-kong-protests-from-its-app-store}}</ref>
|-
|Slack
|Slack threatened to deactivate the Slack workspace and delete all message history of a nonprofit unless they agreed to a price hike of $200k yearly and also pay an extra $50k within a week. There were no prior warnings from Slack. A few years prior to this incident, they had agreed to migrate from the free nonprofit plan to a $5k per year plan.
|<ref>{{Cite web |date=2025-09-18 |title=Slack is extorting us with a $195k/yr bill increase |url=https://skyfall.dev/posts/slack |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20250930075808/https://skyfall.dev/posts/slack |archive-date=2025-09-30}}</ref>
|-
|[[Cloudary Holdings Limited / Webnovel]]
|Terms of service with binding Arbitration.
|<ref>{{Cite web |title= |url=https://www.webnovel.com/terms_of_service}}</ref>
|-
|Neato (Vorwerk)
|Two years after taking over competitor Neato, Vorwerk closed down the Neato cloud services. Vacuum robots lose all app functionality and can only be started manually, which will cause them to do a full clean. No off-limits zones, no rooms, no barriers, only everything or nothing. Neato robots are not supported by Valetudo.
|<ref>{{Cite web |title= |url=https://support.neatorobotics.com/support/solutions/articles/204000073686}}</ref>
|-
|The Japan Times
|The Japan Times uses DMCA to take down an open source study resource for Genki and Quartet workbooks.
|<ref>{{Cite web |last=Clydesdale |first=Seth |date=2025-09-11 |title=Important Information Regarding Genki and Quartet Study Resources |url=https://ko-fi.com/post/Important-Information-Regarding-Genki-and-Quartet-D1D21L4B1S}}</ref><ref>{{Cite web |title=Update Regarding Genki and Quartet Study Resources DMCA Situation |url=https://ko-fi.com/post/Update-Regarding-Genki-and-Quartet-Study-Resources-Y8Y21M1F5E}}</ref><ref>{{Cite web |date=2025-10-03 |title=All Exercises for Genki/Quartet Study Resources Have Been Removed |url=https://ko-fi.com/post/All-Exercises-for-GenkiQuartet-Study-Resources-Wi-R6R81M8LLN}}</ref>
|-
|E621
|Terms of service that require agreement to forced arbitration to use the website.
|<ref>{{Cite web |date=2025-10-02 |title=E621 |url=https://e621.net/ |url-status=live |website=E621}}</ref>
|-
|Apple, Beats
|No support for Powerbeats (4th generation) despite the headphones being under 5 years from when Apple last distributed the product for sale. The product is not listed as discontinued or vintage, and by Apple's own guidelines, should be eligible for replacement parts and repair. OEM replacement eartips cannot be purchased for any Beats earphones.
|<ref>{{Cite web |title=Obtaining service for your Apple product after an expired warranty |url=https://support.apple.com/en-us/102772 |url-status=live |access-date=2025-10-18}}</ref><ref>{{Cite web |title=Beats Repair and Service |url=https://support.apple.com/beats/repair |url-status=live |access-date=2025-10-18}}</ref><ref>{{Cite web |title=Apple store search for eartips |url=https://www.apple.com/us/search/eartips?src=alp |url-status=live |access-date=2025-10-18}}</ref>
|-
|[[Sony]]
|The PSVita required a proprietary memory system and came with no usable memory natively; as a result, to effectively use the console, one had to purchase official, expensive memory cards from Sony. The PCH-1000 also had a proprietary charging port, making it nearly impossible to replace the cable should it break once Sony's support for the console dwindled. The charging port issue was later addressed via an updated console which changed the port to a microUSB connection. However, the expensive proprietary memory card issue remained and was exacerbated by Sony's blockage of using the PCH-2000's 1GB of storage while a memory card was inserted. Sony's continued efforts to block homebrew via firmware updates limited the owner's ability to continue using the device years after support was dropped for the console.
|<ref>{{Cite web |title=PlayStation Vita Launches From 22 February 2012 |url=https://blog.playstation.com/archive/2011/10/19/playstation-vita-launches-from-22-february-2012/ |url-status=dead |archive-url=https://blog.playstation.com/archive/2011/10/19/playstation-vita-launches-from-22-february-2012/ |archive-date=2011-10-19 |access-date=2025-10-18 |website=Playstation.Blog}}</ref><ref>{{Cite web |title=PS Vita Slim internal storage not usable with a memory card |url=https://web.archive.org/web/20131013181238/http://www.justpushstart.com/2013/10/ps-vita-slim-internal-storage-usable-memory-card/ |url-status=dead |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20131013181238/http://www.justpushstart.com/2013/10/ps-vita-slim-internal-storage-usable-memory-card/ |archive-date=2013-10-13 |website=Just Push Start}}</ref><ref>{{Cite web |title=Types of card media |url=https://manuals.playstation.net/document/gb/psvita/basic/media.html |url-status=dead |archive-url=https://manuals.playstation.net/document/gb/psvita/basic/media.html |archive-date=2012-08-29 |access-date=2025-10-18 |website=Playstation}}</ref><ref>{{Cite web |title=Meet the Hackers Breathing New Life Into Sony’s Abandoned PlayStation Vita |url=https://www.vice.com/en/article/meet-the-hackers-breathing-new-life-into-sonys-abandoned-playstation-vita/? |url-status=live |access-date=2025-10-18 |website=Vice}}</ref>
|}

==List of themes not yet covered==
{| class="wikitable"
|+
!Theme
!Summary of Theme
!Refs
|-
|[[Ad block]]
|User customization of information presentation. For instance, to selectively not display information of little interest to the user, or content the user deems harmful or offensive, or to conserve resources by not processing some information.
Why include: Advertising is pervasive online, and increasingly showing up in devices. Many sources, including US government agencies, suggest ad block as a way of enhancing security. Ad block can help consumers own their own devices by controlling what they do. There are efforts to use copyright law (e.g., DMCA/spotify/revanced, and German court case) to force you to run programs on your device. See also, [[Advertising overload]]
|[https://www.theregister.com/2025/08/15/german_court_ruling_ad_blocking/]
|-
|[[Cloud]]
|Somebody else's computer. See also: [[Self-hosting|Self-hosting,]] [[Software as a service]] Examples: [[OneDrive]], [[ICloud]], [[Ring]]
Issues: Legal protections your vs. somebody else's computer. Recovery when lose credentials. etc.
|
|}

== List of companies doing the right thing ==
It would be helpful to include examples of companies doing the right thing, even if for a limited range of their products, and even if they aren't, strictly speaking, consumer products.
{| class="wikitable"
|+
!Company
!Good deed
!Refs
|-
|Tektronix
|Provided extensive product data on unsupported products to a museum, vintageTEK, and thus to tekwiki and the rest of the community.
|<ref>{{Cite web |last=Lenihan |first=Thomas F. |date=2012-02-28 |title=Copyright Notice |url=https://vintagetek.org/copyright-notice/ |url-status=live |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20250828004431/https://vintagetek.org/copyright-notice/ |archive-date=2025-08-28 |access-date=2025-10-18 |website=vintageTEK museum}}</ref>
|}

==See Also==

*[[Louis Rossmann - Video Directory]]
*[[Other Channels - Video Directory|Other Channels - VIdeo Directory]]

==Reference List==
<references />
[[Category:Sources]]

User:CorpoBlight

2025-10-18T20:35:47Z

CorpoBlight:

==Product quality - and manufacturer incentives==
Aside from the problem of corporations abusing their customers after the sale, there are other problems such as terrible product quality. Often it's very difficult for the prospective customer to determine whether a product costs more because it will last longer, or whether it's simply padding the manufacturer's bottom line. One thing that could potentially help here is a mandatory "Product Facts" label, not unlike the label found on foods in the US.

===Drawbacks===
It's argued by some that increasing the information given to consumers can, in cases, actually be detrimental to those consumers. Consider, for example, the fallacious argument that "if you can't pronounce it, it's not healthy" when it comes to ingredients. By that logic, I could create a new name for an ingredient, and that would cause it to become healthy - or vice versa. The "information can be harmful" argument would thus be that showing the ingredients ''can'' be harmful since it may influence the consumer away from something perfectly harmless.

Perhaps this is a trivial concern, but it seems prudent to try to avoid giving manufacturers the opportunity to compete through deception.

I've heard this argument promoted (for medical products) by Dr Stephen Novella, long ago on the Skeptics Guide to the Universe podcast. Of course, he explains it far more eloquently than I can.

===Items for a "product facts" label===
What sort of things could/should appear on such a label? Some data points may not make sense for some types/categories of product, such as consumables. Likewise, if a data point is too difficult for the manufacturer to determine or something they think is a trade secret, they'll make something up or sue to block the law.

====Product quality / expected product lifetime====
Before purchasing, I'd love to know how long my product should last (provided I take reasonably good care of it). But how do we turn this into a metric that isn't difficult for the manufacturer and that they can't deliberately distort?

Requiring them to state the product's expected lifetime (e.g. 5 years) could be difficult to compute and easy to distort. How do you prove that they knew material X would disintegrate rapidly?

Another measure that seems more reliable to me would be a statement about how an additional investment would affect the product's quality. If the following wording were required, the wiggle room seems very limited:<blockquote>An additional investment of 25%, '''prudently applied''', would result in a product that lasted {''number''} times longer.</blockquote>The "prudently applied" bit is load bearing: it applies to the manufacturing process (materials, manufacturing employees, QA, NRE, etc), ''not'' to things like executive compensation, stock dividends, advertising, or funding a high-pressure sales team.

If the number is high, this tells the consumer that it's a high-margin product and they get less product for their money, while if it's low it tells the consumer that most of their money is going towards the actual product. The hope is that consumers armed with this knowledge will be able to choose quality products, providing motivation for companies to produce higher quality / longer lasting products.

====Wage inequality====
This one is more about social ills and corporate greed than something directly impacting the customer's experience with the product.

Corporations like to say that they must pay their execs the way they do to retain them, because "everyone else is doing it". Would they continue to do so if it impacted their bottom line? Would the court of public opinion impact their bottom line if consumers could easily find the numbers at the time of purchase?<blockquote>Our highest-paid executive makes {''number''} times as much per {''period''} as the lowest paid person in our facilities, including contractors but excluding unpaid interns, of which our workforce includes { ''percent'' | ''number'' }.</blockquote>

==== Reliance on online connectivity / corporate servers ====
Will the product function if not connected to the internet? How much functionality is lost without a connection? Will the product continue to function if the company goes under or shuts down its servers?

==== Commitment to not remove features ====
Does the manufacturer commit to not removing any features that are present (or advertised) at the time of purchase? (Exception: ''temporarily'' disabling a feature if a critical security vulnerability is found.)

Do they commit to never changing any of the features present (or advertised) at purchase to features that must be paid for?

==== Commitment to provide security updates ====
Does the manufacturer commit to providing pure security updates for the lifetime of the product? Through what date will such updates be provided? (In this context, a "pure security update" is one which _only_ fixes security issues and does not alter product functionality for better or worse.)

==== Commitment to allow product maintenance in the event the manufacturer is unable ====
If the the product line is shut down, or the manufacturer goes bankrupt or is otherwise incapacitated, do they commit to granting customers the right to documentation, source code, and other design documents necessary to

* repair and maintain the product
* create and maintain any online infrastructure that the product depends on or is enhanced by

User:CorpoBlight

2025-10-18T20:11:04Z

CorpoBlight: Created page with "== Product quality - and manufacturer incentives == Aside from the problem of corporations abusing their customers after the sale, there are other problems such as terrible product quality. Often it's very difficult for the prospective customer to determine whether a product costs more because it will last longer, or whether it's simply padding the manufacturer's bottom line. One thing that could potentially help here is a mandatory "Product Facts" label, not unlike the..."